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<astronavt>
is there an elegant lisp shorthand for `(if foo foo bar)`? not that it's such a big deal, but it might be nice if `foo` is a complicated expression, so it would eliminate a LET and a level of indentation
<astronavt>
like how in most shells you can write ${foo:-$bar}
<aeth>
iirc (not tested) you can say (or foo bar)
<aeth>
I prefer the long way because it's clearer, though
<astronavt>
ah yep that works
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<astronavt>
havent touched lisp in a while, i feel like i forgot a lot of things
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<phadthai>
I've used it intensively around 2011-2012, then rather rarely (other than running applications written in it), until recently when I used it more again... I was bit by the same forms as when beginning: defclass, let, cond (mostly because of the consecutive parens/nested lists) then felt some frustration IRT emacs that I don't normally use other than for Lisp, but after a few days it was already easier
<phadthai>
fortunately
<astronavt>
youve probably forgotten more than i ever knew
<phadthai>
I remembered most of the language itself, but the forks can admitedly be strange at first, or sometimes the function name or argument order that are not always consistent in CL (drawbacks of a long historyevidence of a long history)
<phadthai>
oops
<phadthai>
inadvertently pressed enter when editing
<phadthai>
today I looked again at paredit but like when I first did back then, I doubt I'd ever get used to it, at least not without making modifications or using alternate keyboard bindings
<phadthai>
C-M b/f is awkwardly acrobatic
<phadthai>
even for an advanced typer and guitar player heh
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<phadthai>
s/forks/forms/
<phadthai>
hmm something else I also noticed is that I rarely find MAP/MAPCAR/MAPC forms aesthetic because of the LAMBDA placement
<phadthai>
no matter how I reformat/reindent them
<phadthai>
if the function is not inline then it's cleaner of course
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<phadthai>
oh and I got bit again sometimes by symbol conflicts between packages and stale functions in the image that were no longer in the code but still active and getting executed inadvertently when I was reworking code, the new changes were not working as expected, then when I restarted the image the new function wasn't running anymore either, for the same reason that it depended on another function in the old
<phadthai>
image
<phadthai>
some care with details is necessary with long running images
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<phadthai>
also, being more used to static languages I tend to see more unexpected run-time conditions with CL
<astronavt>
honestly i dont take full advantage of the whole image based dev thing
<astronavt>
i see it as a prototyping convenience basically
<astronavt>
but i dont use emacs anyway
<phadthai>
yes depending on use case it's more or less convenient
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<phadthai>
I was playing with a daemon so it was convenient to remain connected to it with slime/swank
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<phadthai>
then with some drawing functions so it was nice to test them live a-la-LOGO
<phadthai>
welcome back to lisp, btw
<astronavt>
thanks
<astronavt>
i was actually just wondering, is there a standalone swank-like server that doesn't depend on emacs?
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<astronavt>
it looks like Sly has a "standalone" emacs-less mode
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<phadthai>
I've not looked much into alternatives so I don't really know
<phadthai>
I know there are commercial IDEs, some non-commercial pet project ones (I don't remember names without searching), and there was a less powerful but similar connector for vim
<astronavt>
yeah i know about the commercial ones. i just use neovim
<phadthai>
I think I tried the latter once and it may have been in an early phase, despite being a vim user I kept emacs+slime for CL back then
<astronavt>
slimv and vlime are both attempts to replicate slime in vim
<phadthai>
ah it was slimv
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<astronavt>
yeah slimv is +/- 10 yrs old so that sounds about right since you said you stopped using lisp in 2011-'12
<astronavt>
neovim nowadays is very "client-server" oriented, i dont like using these big monolithic plugins when i can avoid it
<phadthai>
ok, I'm not familiar with neovim
<astronavt>
if you are still a vim user i recommend at least checking it out. vim has come pretty far since the stagnant days when nvim was released, but nvim is pushing things in a different direction from vim
<astronavt>
it's less powerful than emacs in a lot of ways still, but i think that will start to change as people write more emacs-like tooling using nvim-only features. but i dont think there are many vim/nvim-using lisp devs out there..
<astronavt>
ive met a few in this channel before but they seem to be the minority
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<phadthai>
hmm ok, thanks, I might try it for lisp eventually if it's a viable alternative perhaps, although I tend to prefer light applications to emacs-like "os-like" ones
<phadthai>
so emacs is the current exception because of slime, albeit I still only run it in a terminal
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<beach>
Good morning everyone!
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<Nilby>
Good morning beach! (and Kazakstan and Kenya, sunlightwise)
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<ldbeth>
what could be optimal data structure for collections (sets) of fixnum pairs with fast union op and search on both fst and snd number?
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<beach>
Two hash tables comes to mind, but maybe that's not fast enough.
<beach>
It may depend a bit on the total number of pairs.
<ldbeth>
it's mean to represent edges in a graph, where each nodes are represented by a fixnum
<ldbeth>
the graph won't be very large in most case, though
<beach>
That won't work in general.
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<beach>
For example, in a graph that that can have multiple edges between any pair of nodes.
<ldbeth>
that is considered as one edge for my purpose
<ldbeth>
to be precise, it represents if two nodes are connected directly
<beach>
I see.
<ldbeth>
For now I just use a generic set data structure made of red black tree
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<beach>
If queries are much more common than modifications, a binary search would be faster than a complicated tree structure.
<ldbeth>
and mergeing two binary search trees are more easier than rbtree
<ldbeth>
ok, I find the thing called "bloom filter"
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<jmercouris>
other than find, is there a zerop equivalent to check if a vector contains only zeros?
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<Josh_2>
(every #'zerop #(0 0 0 0))
<jmercouris>
so far, I am only thinking of (find-if-not #'zerop ...)
<jmercouris>
wouldn't every be slower?
<cl-arthur>
Josh_2: beat me to it by two seconds!
<Josh_2>
cl-arthur: I war racin!
<Josh_2>
jmercouris: depends if it breaks out on the first non-zero instance or not, I don't know if it does
<cl-arthur>
jmercouris: every short-circuits when there's a failure
<Josh_2>
'until a termination criterion is met or the end of the shortest of the sequences is reached'
<jmercouris>
I see, so it is the same speed then probably, if not faster
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<cl-arthur>
every expresses the intent of all vector elements satisfying predicate much better than find-if/find-if-not IMO
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<jmercouris>
I agree with you
<escanda>
jmercouris, if it's a simple array you could check the fill-pointer with (fill-pointer array), if it's zero, there you go. probably fastest way
<jmercouris>
I like every the most, cl-arthur makes a very good argument