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<shidan> I think http://stellar.org|stellar.org needs to put up a directory for gateways
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<sacarlson> why not you just put it up shidan?
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<shidan> because if i was coming to learn about stellar and I wasn't me I wouldn't look for that info on shidan's blog i would look for it somewhere like http://stellar.org|stellar.org
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<shidan> so right now if i wanted to add a trust line to poloniex, where would i look for the id to use?
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<sacarlson> oh IC, well as far as I know the only asset that poloniex has on stellar is Lumens so no needed trust line is needed
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<sacarlson> as far as I know
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<shidan> Would you know of any gateways that have other assets on the network?
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<sacarlson> there was at one time a gold asset on the old system but I'm not sure they are now active on the new network. but I do see some trustlines setup on the Live database I think in Yen but I'm not sure they are real ative or just testing
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<sacarlson> like there is also BEER on the live network that I setup
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<shidan> OK I see, so these startups that I hear about who are starting to use stellar like oradian, how are they exactly using stellar? Is it not as a type of payments/forex network?
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<shidan> ok how would I add BEER, im just using lobstr for playing around right now and trying to connect to network with a gateway
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<sacarlson> I'm just taking a look at http://oradian.com/ I don't see any mention of them using http://stellar.org|stellar.org or there software
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<sacarlson> does lobstr also work on testnet? I
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<sacarlson> I can lookup what the BEER issuer address is, I haven't used it in some time. mostly I work in testnet
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<dzham> We used to have gateways listed in a forum before
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<shidan> there was one on stellartalk i remember probably at least up to a year ago but that site is down
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<dzham> I’m curious as to their intentions with Stellar. I recall seeing some african currency codes as assets on testnet, but on live there’s only about 20 assets, but none of those seem to fit. Mostly JPY and XRP
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<sacarlson> ya I have to assume it's still under development. but how can you have 300,000 active members if it's just developing
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<bitmynt> Nigeria is the economic success story of Africa, the majority of other countries lack financial infrastructure and I'll guess that's where goes
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<shidan> In my experience Nigeria is a very difficult country to develop services in, I bought one of the most active sites there a few years ago and it was very difficult moving it beyond what it was because of govt. regulations. For payments its even much harder, mobile money couldn't establish a footing because of all the backlash from 1st bank and the current incumbents. Ghana and also the countries that support af
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with right now.
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<sacarlson> @shidan: maybe they should just skip the banks and start there own network currency based on maybe a commodity like maybe BEER? As long as people know the value they can trade with it
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<sacarlson> mine is based on the 330mL can of Leo Beer by they way
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<shidan> Sounds good, but govts that don't let mobile money and carriers in probably would probably wouldn't have a problem banning beer backed community money if it caught on :)
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<sacarlson> yes so we have to start the underground BEER markt
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<shidan> hehe
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<cyberomin> @shidan: do you live in Nigeria?
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<M-matthew>
jed: have been playing a bit with your DataEntry PR on stellar-core
<M-matthew>
are you envisaging any mechanism to let a node deliberately reject a given data entry update in order to break consensus?
<M-matthew>
(e.g. if the node disagreed with whatever assertion the data was stating?)
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<raymens> @M-matthew If a node is trying to do malicious stuff like that than others will remove it from it's quorum I guess and it will become irrelevant what that particular validator thinks
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<M-matthew>
my use case isn't malicious though
<M-matthew>
i'm wondering if individual nodes can just make business decisions based on data entries, and so non-maliciously break the consensus on a transaction if they happen to disagree with whatever the data is asserting.
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<raymens> I'm not that familiar with the DataEntry yet, but as far as I can tell it's just a key-value store. So any node that doesn't accept a DataEntry operation because of some "personal" opinions seems like a malicious node to me
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<M-matthew>
right. i'm seeing if i can (ab)use DataEntry as basically an easy on-ramp for general SCP-backed consensus behaviour
<M-matthew>
specifically, if one node asserts that a 3rd party ID such as foo@bar.com maps to a given public-key by adding it as an entry into the ledger for a given account, but another node happens to know that this mapping is a lie, it would reject it and break the consensus
<M-matthew>
for the use case of (ab)using stellar as a distributed store for storing keybase-style identity mappings
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<jed> You can't do that. You would have to do it the other way where either other people vouch that the data is correct or keybase style where the data can be externally validated
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<jed> If I say this twitter account belongs to me I would also tweet something to prove it
<M-matthew>
i'm not expecting the stellar node to do the actual vouching - the identity validator would act as a client.
<M-matthew>
the thought experiment is to (say) have 3 keybase-style services, trying to get consensus on mappings across the 3 via SCP, storing the mappings in the ledger
<M-matthew>
so you'd have keybase going and validating and aggregating the mappings that folks have advertised on {twitter, fb, webfinger, etc}
<M-matthew>
and adding it to the ledger
<M-matthew>
but to avoid keybase being the one trusted chokepoint for gathering that data (even though it can be externally verified)
<M-matthew>
you'd have a few more similar services - e.g. a webfist verifier for email addresses
<M-matthew>
or a 2FA SMS provider for MSISDNs
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also contributing to the shared ledger (and able to evict existing mappings they disprove)
<M-matthew>
i appreciate i'm probably trying to force a square peg into a round hole
<M-matthew>
but this is the reason for wondering about whether evictions would be done by clients updating the ledger, or stellar nodes having business logic to know when to reject certain transactions
<M-matthew>
(as i presume they reject invalid transactions already which would take lumen accounts -ve, etc)
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<jed> Well you don't need any service at all if you are using the ledger and it is externally verifiable
<M-matthew>
well, some trusted identity aggregator (like keybase) needs to insert the mappings, presumably?
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<jed> I would just say hey this is my public key and this is my twitter account and here is the tweet to prove it
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<jed> Any client could look it up to make sure
<M-matthew>
right - but who are you saying that to?
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<jed> The world
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<jed> It is a public DB
<M-matthew>
ideally you'd have (say) twitter & FB inserting mappings themselves into the ledger, but i can't see that happening any time soon, hence things like keybase popping up as a middleman (and unfortunate chokepoint)
<M-matthew>
oh, right, i see what you're getting at.
* M-matthew
-> think
<M-matthew>
thanks for feedback.
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<jed> So as long as there is some standard way of asserting this stuff in the ledger it can be completely decentralized
<M-matthew>
there is still the problem of actually indexing the ledger by 3PID however
<M-matthew>
as the query you'd want to do is to say "what's the $foo_public_key for @JedMcCaleb"
<M-matthew>
whereas aiui the ledger is indexed strictly by stellar account public key atm?
<M-matthew>
so i assume you'd need to consume all the updates to the ledger into some intermediate representation datastructure that's indexed by the various 3PIDs
<M-matthew>
(a bit like keybase's merkle tree)
<M-matthew>
such that you can actually do that query - but at least the dataset you're querying is consistent and immutable thanks to SCP?
<M-matthew>
what sort of hooks are there for consuming the ledger to build a datastructure like that?
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<jed> Hmm Yeah I'd have to think about that
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<jed> You can certainly just select all the data entries and index them yourself
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<raymens> maybe building a database similar to how Horizon-importer does it?
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<raymens> but with a focus on this usecase
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<jed> Sorry got to go but happy to talk more later
<M-matthew>
sorry - i went afk too. and apologies for the stream of consciousness - i'm muddling my way through this :) if the idea of building a DB out of the ledger contents sounds plausible, though, then yay!
<M-matthew>
although still wondering whether it could ever be valid to make the consensus decision more domain-aware, rather than just aiming for unconditional replication
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<raymens> Seems like a big pile of bureaucracy
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<obirije> I want to know more about steller and oradian integration for MFI's especially in Nigerian , base on the post i read in your blog post
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<eva> @obirije: Hello, and welcome to the community! What would you like to learn more about? The technical details of the network, or more about how the system will work for the MFI’s using the ntwork?
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<obirije> actually both. I am from that region and I want to know how I can contribute or even develop applications on top of the network platform
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<eva> @obirije: awesome :) So, the new MFI network makes it possible for different institutions to instantly send money to each other. As you may know (being from the region), it was previously very hard to move money from branch to branch. By using the Stellar network for transfers of money, MFI’s will save time and money and have more secure transactions. Does that make sense? Let me know if you want more details on
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<eva> In terms of the network itself, if you’re a developer this is a great place to start: https://www.stellar.org/developers/
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<eva> The network is completely open source and free for everyone to build on. You could build all kinds of apps, including remittances, domestic payments, ecommerce, and savings. (I mention ecommerce because I hear it’s growing a lot in Nigeria). The “learn” page may help with some basic concepts: https://www.stellar.org/developers/learn/
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<obirije> Great. I just started going through the docs. but i would like to know more details if the integration is already in place with these MFI's. i.e if they already supports the plateform
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<jed> the integration is in place in the Oradian software that they use but we still need to explain that they can do this to the actual MFIs.
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<obirije> also I got info about the meetup event with the Steller team in Nigeria, but I couldn't attend because i was in a different city. Is it possible to get clips or slides of the event ?? thnx
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<eva> @obirije: not sure if we have clips/slides yet, but when we do I will be sure to let you know.
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<obirije> basically the integration is with only those MFI's with the Oradian software, so what do you meant by "we still need to explain that they can do this to the actual MFIs" bcos am a little confused with that statement.
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<eva> (not from Nigeria, but still a good talk :) )
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<jed> the MFIs are using the Oradian softwware
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<jed> I don't think they know that there is this new feature yet
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<obirije> great, it means i can start building applications for it
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<obirije> :+1:
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<jed> yep
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<obirije> is there a different API for Oradian or I can just communicate with the software via Stellers API?
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<jed> yeah just the stellar API
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<jed> That is the power of it is that everyone can connect to stellar and then interoperate with anyone else on stellar without having to do anything custom.
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<obirije> Ok, thnx. let me walk through the API
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<obirije> Pls I would like a quick overview on how to fund or withdraw from my Steller walllet (from the point of an average PayPal user)