<Ellenor>
So I'm trying to install ipfs on freebsd and immediately I get this lovely gem: ERROR: install-path hook failed: exit status 1
<Ellenor>
just from gmake install
<Ellenor>
do I need to run a ./configure script?
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<whyrusleeping>
Ellenor: is your GOPATH set?
<Ellenor>
no but I have go installed in /usr/local/go which would be a failure
<dryajov>
diasdavid: dignifiedquire: not sure whats the best place to ask questions about pull streams
<Ellenor>
I have no idea
<dryajov>
but… here I go :P… would a pull.collect always terminate the stream?
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<Ellenor>
Guten tag
<Ellenor>
Any experts on ronsorology up in this thing?
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<Ellenor>
whyrusleeping: Hey
<Ellenor>
whyrusleeping: I take it that the FUSE interface is RO
<Ellenor>
when I try to `nano` a mutable, I get an input/output error
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<Guest178670[m]>
test
<Ellenor>
h
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<pinkieval>
IPFS does no longer supports Go 1.6, which released only a year ago?
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<jff_[m]>
63vnw
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<warbo>
Hello, I want to host a Web site on IPFS, and I'm wondering if there's any support/workaround for redirecting
<warbo>
my existing site has a /git subdirectory, with often-changing data (git repos)
<warbo>
it seems wasteful to push a whole new copy of the site on each change
<warbo>
is there a way I could e.g. link/redirect that directory to some separate URL (maybe IPNS)
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<jff_[m]>
what's the benefits of IPFS over bittorrent
<warbo>
I get that the IPFS data is immutable; but when accessed via a HTTP gateway, that data goes through several layers of processing (HTTP server, user agent, etc.) which could be redirected
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<warbo>
jff_[m]: that depends on your use-case I suppose
<e337>
I don't think the site gets pushed on each update. Only the blocks that have changed would be added and the would be *pulled* from the web server when a new IPNS name is published.
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<warbo>
e337: ah, I hadn't thought about the file/block-level deduping
<jff_[m]>
warbo: are you familiar with software Popcorn Time
<warbo>
it would still cause churn on the IPNS name; does those updates take a while to propagate?
<e337>
The thing about git is that it often uses a compressed .pack file that, if added to ipfs, would result in the whole large .pack file being added, with many or all blocks showing a change, even if you made a very small commit.
<r0kk3rz>
git doesnt really cleanly map to ipfs just yet
<warbo>
jff_[m]: I like the UNIX commandline and HTTP gateways of IPFS
<jff_[m]>
warbo: is IPFS suitable for peer2peer file sharing
<warbo>
jff_[m]: for bulk transfer of data (e.g. video files), I suppose bittorrent and IPFS both have merits
<e337>
A compressed format that was more amenable to de-duplication would be nice, but I don't think the zlib compression cares that many bits change due to small data changes.
<r0kk3rz>
jff_[m]: p2p file sharing is what ipfs is all about
<r0kk3rz>
well, mostly about
<jff_[m]>
can IPFS receive data from two peers to complete a single file
<jff_[m]>
the way bittorrent does
<e337>
Also you can redirect using an frame or something.
<r0kk3rz>
jff_[m]: ipfs works very similarly to bittorrent
<jff_[m]>
interesting
<jff_[m]>
it's been a long time since i've used it
<jff_[m]>
i've forgotten all about it
<e337>
r0kk3rz, I disagree. ipfs is almost exactly like git..
<r0kk3rz>
e337: technology wise, correct. but running git on ipfs...
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<e337>
The pack file is only an inconvenience to ipfs. You can unpack it and they describe how to do that in the examples.
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<r0kk3rz>
ideally git should store stuff in raw ipfs blocks, but i dont think anyone has made it do that yet
<e337>
As a matter of fact, you could probably emulate ipfs content-addressable tech using a git backend.
<warbo>
e337: frames are useful for browser-based interaction, but not for general HTTP clients :(
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<warbo>
I'm seeing how feasible it is to ditch my EC2 server in favour of IPFS, without breaking existing URLs
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<warbo>
using DNS to redirect to gateway.ipfs.io, as I've seen in a few examples
<e337>
Well, I don't get what you're doing with git and HTTP. Are you hosting the git respository, or are you hosting some website html that happens to be stored in a git repo
<e337>
r0kk3rz, why wouldn't it be the other way around?
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<warbo>
I have a Web site on /, and git repos accessible via HTTP at e.g. /git/foo.git
<e337>
I mean, honestly, you can "almost" mount IPFS to .git/blocks and have it "just work", since they are very similar concepts. The hash algorithm would have to change, but not much else.
<e337>
Yeah, was too lazy to get the link for you ;-)
<e337>
What confused me is you have to move the pack files *out* of the objects directory first.
<warbo>
e337: thanks a lot, I think I have enough of an idea how to cobble something together now!
<e337>
Also I think the git repo has a pack file setting as well.
<e337>
$ git config --add gc.auto 0
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<e337>
I'm guessing ipfs doesn't really do well with large compressed packed blobs.
<e337>
e.g., it might be better to untar a .tar.gz file before adding the files, since ipfs could de-duplicate files in the tarball over a number of successive revisions like files.00.tar.gz, files.01.tar.gz, etc. where only fraction of files actually change.
<e337>
All of this de-duplication logic is already handled I believe quite well with an ordinary git repository, though. I don't think ipfs's strength is in tracking successive revisions of anything, but that is absolutely one of git's core strengths.
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<e337>
ipfs does do de-duplication of 256k blocks within large files, though, whereas git only tries to de-dup entire files.
<e337>
The thing is, though, the pack file compression handles "de-duplication" on a bitwise level, far better than simply removing identical hashes of sub-blocks.
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<e337>
File compression is essentially de-duplication, so when you apply compression to the entire repository history, you are basically de-duplicating across time. The per-filename object hash can help with simple de-duplication of identical blocks in space, but it can't help when blocks change only slightly.
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<e337>
I'm guessing ipfs doesn't do compression across historical changes to objects, nor does it even have a concept of historical revision.
<Kubuxu>
e337: not by default, but is is quite easy to do it
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<AphelionZ>
e337: I'm working on that very thing in my pastebin
<AphelionZ>
basically I keep a "graph hash" around where I'm storing a representation of the history of my data that i update
<e337>
So in warbo's case, whenever the pack file is updated, like through a push or gc, a completely new, potentially very large, object will be added to ipfs, even if only a small fraction of the git repo changes.
<e337>
AphelionZ, ah
<e337>
The thing is, I am still having trouble understanding how ipfs is different from git, and why exactly it would want to be different from git in those ways.
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<AphelionZ>
in my mind it's really only the content summing + hashing part of git, and it's a lot more like bittorrent than anything but IANAE
<AphelionZ>
I'm really more into "applied ipfs" :D
<e337>
Yeah
<AphelionZ>
the ops are much deeper into the theory than I am
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<AphelionZ>
e337: are you the creator of the Far Side comic
<e337>
But obviously if you use it for anything in the real world, you're going to have to deal with changes over time.
<e337>
So why not just add bittorrent to git and call it a day?
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<e337>
I do realize how much git sucks for certain things, and that ipfs kicks its ass in certain types of performance metrics, but git addresses extremely important problems that ipfs appears to have neglected.
<e337>
In other words, why design a major fundamental component of the ipfs system that just looks like a cheap knock off of git?
<e337>
Why not just actually *be* git?
<e337>
Change my view
<e337>
I used to draw comics a long time ago
<AphelionZ>
That rules
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<AphelionZ>
But yeah maybe youre right! Either way it would be awesome to see those features in git
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<e337>
git gets really slow when repositories become too friggen huge
<e337>
so you probably can't easily put the entire internet into a single git repository
<e337>
many developers would think you're insane for even considering it
<e337>
however, this is precisely what ipfs appears to fantasize about doing
<kythyria[m]>
Git is also designed on the assumption that the repo is small enough to fetch the entire thing
<e337>
I don't think it *assumes* that as much as it *demands* it.
<e337>
So if you checked out a HEAD revision in a git repo that only included 1 object, there should be no need to get any of the other non-referenced objects in the repo.
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<e337>
And as a matter of fact, there really is no need, but git clones the entire history as a means to *distribute* an immutable *history*, an extremely important concept if you are considering having a "permanent" web.
<e337>
Sufficient distribution is a required condition of durability and immutability, and therefore permanence.
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<e337>
So for example, you'd need sufficient and immutable history in order to protect against things like ransomware.
<hsanjuan>
I always understood you can use IPFS properties as primitives to implement [something like] Git
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<e337>
Well, it's because ipfs was deeply inspired by git, and its data model is basically git's data model.
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<e337>
There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, but I think as time goes on, ipfs is just going to try to mimic more and more of what git has already had for quite a while.
<e337>
The thing is, ipfs does some things that git *should* be doing, like dht and a bittorrent-like distribution mechanism.
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<e337>
git sucks when it comes to distributed systems though. e.g., it's not effective for tracking differences and similarities between millions of repositories.
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<e337>
An interesting test would be to add the *entire* github database to ipfs just to see how well it performs.
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<kythyria[m]>
e337: A git commit references every object all the way back to the beginning of the repo
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<AphelionZ>
e337: "tracking differences and similarities between millions of repositories" i guess in the end, if it's successful, ipfs will just be a mass storage array of seemingly randomized 256 byte blocks with the most common blocks saturated through the network
<AphelionZ>
and people will just sort of assemble the content they needs based on combining all these blocks
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<lgierth>
5p UTC, and from next week on 4pm UTC while we're going through the DST switch
<lgierth>
unless i got something wrong
<lgierth>
i added it for 5p UTC to the calendar
<seharder_>
lgierth: I guess I’m not sure. 17:00 UTC is good for me.
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<GreyDuder>
Hello
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<GreyDuder>
Are there storage limits to IPFS? I am testing some things and it looks cool but what if I upload 100GB of data and I go offline, will that data live on the network?
<GreyDuder>
Also, how do I set limits to what I want to store? Will my disk just start pulling stuff from the network and fill up?
<frood>
GreyDuder: if and only if someone else downloads them.
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<GreyDuder>
Frood: Ah so, if I add something, I must stay online and if someone grabs my file, he will start sharing it?
<frood>
you only download things you request (and provider lists, I believe, which are tiny), so if you don't request things, your disk won't fill.
<GreyDuder>
Right. But if someone just downloads the file and shutsdown IPFS they do not seed right?
<frood>
right. just like if you shut down IPFS you don't seed either
<GreyDuder>
So if I'd like to upload a picture and people grab it, it doesnt mean it will stay seeded?
<GreyDuder>
So in that sense it's not fault tolerant
<frood>
despite the "permanent web" tagline, there is no guarantee in IPFS that data will stay available.
<frood>
availability is (like in bitttorrent) a function of popularity.
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<GreyDuder>
Yeah so it has like a bittorent client buildin to it and seeds what you download
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<frood>
many things are similar to bittorrent, but there's a different protocol under the hood.
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<GreyDuder>
If you download it trough your normal browser and just save it to c:\whatever and unpack the file to c:\somewhereelse, how does IPFS know what to seed
<GreyDuder>
?
<frood>
it doesn't. you have to add it via your ipfs client.
<frood>
getting files from an online ipfs gateway is like leeching (except that the gateway is now seeding that file)
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<Kubuxu>
GreyDuder: if you download it from your local ipfs gateway it will be cached in the ipfs and the nseeded
<GreyDuder>
So even if people download a file from me, they are not seeding anything unless they explicitly add it to their "repo"?
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<frood>
if people download a file from you via on online gateway (like ipfs.io) they are not seeding
<frood>
if people download it via a local ipfs client, they are seeding.
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<frood>
(unless their client is modified to leech, which afaik hasn't become a thing yet)
<Kubuxu>
(in the first case ipfs.io gateways will seed it for some time but they will remove it when their storage limits are reached).
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<GreyDuder>
Hmm, so if you'd write webtorrent client that uses IPFS, in theory you'd be set?
<Kubuxu>
you don't have to do that
<frood>
well, sort-of.
<Kubuxu>
also the difference is between: permanent vs persistent
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<GreyDuder>
How does zeronet relate to IPFS?
<Kubuxu>
the IPFS web is permanent, /ipfs/ links always point to the same content and it can be easily persisted by even a 3rd party
<GreyDuder>
I understand IPFS natively can host html/javascript, right? And display it in a browser?
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<Kubuxu>
yup
<frood>
Kubuxu: they sometimes point to content, and they sometimes time out.
<GreyDuder>
So what is zeronet for?
<frood>
the difference is between what claims can be reasonably justified and sound good. >.>
<Kubuxu>
frood: the timeout because this is what our gateways do as DoS protection, but local gateways do no timeout, so you keep searching for the content
<frood>
that's not any better. sometimes they point to content, and sometimes they spawn a process that never halts.
<GreyDuder>
So the difference between bittorrent and IPFS is that IPFS presents a layer where it can be used as an FS basically...
<GreyDuder>
But other then that, it's kind of the same. You seed a file and people can therefor dowload it
<Reventlov>
GreyDuder: ipfs is basically bittorrent with a git-like tree to organize the files
<frood>
GreyDuder: also nice things like chunking, multihashes, IPLD, merkle-dags, etc.
<Reventlov>
and deduplication, and some other stuff
<Kubuxu>
and migration path for current web
<GreyDuder>
Yeah so it's easier to present and handle by the application layer
<GreyDuder>
You if I understand correctly, if you just install nginx and point it to a mounted IPFS, you do not need zeronet?
<frood>
zeronet is another, unrelated, project
<Reventlov>
that's basically ipfs.io
<Reventlov>
also, what frood just said.
<GreyDuder>
Yes but I am thinking how I can create a dapp
<Reventlov>
this is not related to ipfs in any way.
<Kubuxu>
you don't even have to do that, `ipfs daemon` and visit `localhost:8080/ipns/ipfs.io`
<GreyDuder>
I understand, I am just wondering where it fits in
<Kubuxu>
or using js-ipfs, visit `oribt.chat`
<Kubuxu>
https://orbit.chat and if everything works well (alpha) chat with me at #ipfs
<frood>
Kubuxu: is orbit.chat a gateway behind the scenes?
<Kubuxu>
no, it is just a static webpage
<Kubuxu>
hosted on ipfs
<Reventlov>
frood: yeah, there is a gateway.
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<Kubuxu>
so gateway-ish, but not needed
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<Reventlov>
Your web browser does not talk the ipfs, there is a daemon somewhere shooting http
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<GreyDuder>
Hmmmm, so how to handle DB's?
<Kubuxu>
checkout orbit-db
<frood>
ok. so presumably there's a Qm... for that page, and orbit.chat is a gateway that serves that hash only
<GreyDuder>
I understand one could create a website on IPFS and it is decentralized
<GreyDuder>
it's basically a dapp
<Kubuxu>
frood: yes
<Reventlov>
"a dapp"
<Kubuxu>
frood: ipfs name resolve /ipns/orbit.chat
<GreyDuder>
So if anyone access the website, they seed it
<Kubuxu>
yup
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<Reventlov>
wtf is even a dapp
<Kubuxu>
(if they run local gateways)
<Kubuxu>
s/gateways/gateways
<GreyDuder>
Distributed Application
<MrControll>
Decentralized Application.
<Kubuxu>
s/gateways/gateway
<MrControll>
...or distributed yes.
<GreyDuder>
Or decentralized even
<GreyDuder>
lol
<MrControll>
:P
<Kubuxu>
distributed is stronger
<Reventlov>
nope, decentralized is stronger :)
<frood>
Reventlov: "dapp" is a fancy word for "sounds cooler than an app" :)
<MrControll>
same basic meaning either way
<Reventlov>
hadoop is distributed
<Reventlov>
Bittorrent mainline is decentralized
<frood>
Reventlov: typically people mean "untrusted" when talking about dapps.
<frood>
hadoop is trusted hardware
<Reventlov>
frood: hm, ok, so open membership
<frood>
yah, design a distributed system in such a way that it creates an app as long as N% of the nodes are not malicious
<GreyDuder>
Orbit.chat is an app that runs on IPFS purely?
<frood>
Reventlov: ty for saying that. that image is a strong meme in this space.
<Kubuxu>
You can disagree but I won't argue, you are attacking the claim so it is on your side to prove it.
<Reventlov>
distributed just means you have distributed things, that is to say non geographically at the same place for some grain. Two computers in my room connected by wifi are distributed. Decentralized is by essense distributed: if you have only one "node", you are centralized, you can't be decentralized if you're not distributed.
<Reventlov>
Distributed is a kind of physical topology argument
<Kubuxu>
decentralized just means that there is no one central node
<Reventlov>
while decentralized is a higher level thing, kind of "distributed + no single point of failure"
<Kubuxu>
frood: no idea, sorry, I am working mostly on the Go side of things
<GreyDuder>
Kubuxu: Yes but for any not so tech savvy person who just want to use the app, they will just use orbit.chat, so that will create a bottleneck..?
<frood>
that's cool. you mentioned WebRTC signaling server, so I'm guessing that's how it works now
<Kubuxu>
frood: it is sort of hybrid AFAIK
<GreyDuder>
Kubuxu: So the only wat to solve it is probably to package an app in a stripped down standalone browser with IPFS inside?
<frood>
GreyDuder: in the future you can make orbit.chat serve only js-ipfs and a root hash for the app.
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<Kubuxu>
GreyDuder: we are working on browser addons that will automagically run ipfs daemon and redirect for example orbit.chat to local daemon
<Kubuxu>
where the orbit.chat will be autodetected to be IPFS site
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<GreyDuder>
Kubuxu: Yeah, that would be nice, so you could then make any site and host it on IPFS and anyone can visit and seeds it too
<Reventlov>
Kubuxu: "nobody is holding the key"
<Reventlov>
so, there is no consistency, right?
<Reventlov>
Question: how two peers that are not agreeing on the chat history resolving conflicts?
<Kubuxu>
OPlog and CRDT provides sort of consistency depending on what data is available, providing history
<Reventlov>
Which CRDT is used by orbit? The README just mention CRDT (that are a class of type)
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<Kubuxu>
this isn't question for me, sorry
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<haad>
Reventlov: down the stack orbit uses a g-set CRDT. orbit in itself uses orbit-db which has multiple CRDTs as databases (g-set, lww-set, register, counter).
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<Uzerus>
hi
<Uzerus>
i need to know something, noobby
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<Uzerus>
why etherape told me i use 1Mbps and ipfs stats bw tells that i use few kBps
<Uzerus>
in the same time
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<Kubuxu>
it is sometimes a bit buggy
<Uzerus>
the ipfs stats?
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<lgierth>
it's simply not an accurate number
<lgierth>
for example it doesn't take the encryption around each connection into account
<Uzerus>
ah ok
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<Uzerus>
how can i help the ipfs network as an noob in programming (want to learn JS) just know what is variable :D
<Uzerus>
i have some PC in my school with windows 7 / xp
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<Uzerus>
without admin previlages
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<Uzerus>
if making an website in ipfs will be stupid easy, it will be fine...
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<Uzerus>
mean the names
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<seharder>
Zoom link for DOC sprint standup will be posted in 5 minutes
<Uzerus>
just see, f.e. i created a website, but i must format my pc, or there was an accident and i lost my peer hash (ipns) ... i cannot update the website that ppl should see
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<sidhujag>
hello I have a question about integrating iPFS into a blockchain design can someone help me out?
<sidhujag>
hopefully someone familiar with both
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<pinkieval>
sidhujag: don't ask to ask, just ask
<sidhujag>
thanks
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<antiantonym>
Is anyone else experiencing issues with gateway.ipfs.io? (sorry if this is a FAQ ATM)
<sidhujag>
I want the miner to be able to pick up pseudo transactions and create a merkle tree, root the merkle tree hash into the blockchain and create another ipfs file that stores the merkle tree... verifiers can read the merkle tree and detect if the hash of their file is inside of the merkle tree and thus anchored to the blockchain
<Kubuxu>
antiantonym: any specific type of issue
<antiantonym>
I'm trying to resolve an ipfs and an ipns address and the browser is waiting on a response
<sidhujag>
so essentially... nodes need to be able to push data to ipfs (just transaction IDs) and miner needs to be able to know that these are pending transactions that havent been included yet and create a tree hash out of them, and post additional data back to IPFS which anyone in the world can access
<antiantonym>
gateway.ipfs.io/ipfs/QmYqrZ9R8pT5jXS6RgjusgzqLim2JDkVxc8Pmb2cMGPEoh and gateway.ipfs.io/ipns/QmXmZPCyD32MkhcDnLKAgmKqFqP995wrp7eNfKZiF9wNvV should resolve to the same resource
<sidhujag>
its almos tlike for each block i'd need a seperate namespace that is specific to that block and miners know to look in there
<dryajov>
any js folks around? would love to get some help debugging circuit :P