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<anon136>
anyone in here?
<h[m]1>
I believe so
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<anon136>
Hi I'm wondering how streamed content works. Like this for example https://github.com/orbitdb/orbit orbit.chat resolves to /ipfs/QmfEYqodVLUom3WLhorBhSZ9kJ9ahho48qvxjfAfwwBeeF So I know all the chat messages arent being stored in a file inside that merkle dag or else new chat messages would cause that hash to change.
<anon136>
I know you can change the contents of a recursive hash and then just reassign the same namespace to it each time you change it but you have to compute a new signed hash with each change which couldnt work for rapidly updating content I dont think.
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<neuthral>
what about a atomatic web cache hasher?
<neuthral>
*autoMgic
<neuthral>
i bet someone has had this idea before ^_^
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<haad>
anon136: Orbit.chat uses https://github.com/orbitdb/orbit-db for "storing all messages without changing the hash". the hash ^ that orbit.chat resolves to is the actual app (code) to run it, but no "chat data" is in that hash.
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<anon136>
"and IPFS Pubsub to automatically sync databases with peers" it's this "pubsub" thing isn't it?
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<anon136>
thanks this is perfect. cant dig into it tonight but I'll leave the tab open for tomorrow.
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<haad>
anon136: pubsub is for sending messages around the p2p network by topic. the topic can be anything (a string) but in orbit's case it's the address of the database (ie. the channel)
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<jfmherokiller[m]>
so im guessing pubsub is kind of like an rss feed?
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<jfmherokiller[m]>
but instead of having a single server you have possibly key value pairs where the topic is the key and you "subscribe" to it and if you publish your own key value pair others get it
<jfmherokiller[m]>
also without the obnoxious xml crapolia
<haad>
pubsub is not a feed, there's no "history" per se. pubsub also doesn't guarantee in-order delivery nor deliver-once. but yes, in a way it's a "key-value pair" in that you subscribe to a topic (key) and send data to the topic (value), the data can be any arbitrary value as pubsub doesn't enforce any semantics or types.
<haad>
I like to think of it as an "event emitter" in terms of how it works :)
<jfmherokiller[m]>
well i didnt mean like a true feed i meant you essentially have a loop where you continuously request the key or "topic" from the dht and gather all the responses
<jfmherokiller[m]>
but thats just my take on it using just what i can gather from the name
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<haad>
ok :) to clarify on that: pubsub doesn't use dht and doesn't pull the messages. rather, it's direct connections between peers and the messages get pushes to any peer that is connected and subscribed to the topic of the message. does that make sense?
<haad>
that all said, pubsub is great for creating a "feed" primitive on top of it
<jfmherokiller[m]>
yea
<haad>
cool
<jfmherokiller[m]>
it would just take a while for me to implement anything useful on it lol
<haad>
:)
<jfmherokiller[m]>
for a chat something like a singly linked list datastructure could be used where each chat message value holds the hash of the previously seen message and this continues till the last message link is null
<haad>
well, check out the log and feed databases in orbitdb if you're looking for a feed functionality on IPFS (feed as in with a history of messages all the way back to the "beginning"), so you don't have to implement it yourself :)
<haad>
jfmherokiller[m]: yup, exactly!
<haad>
that's exactly what the log/feed in orbitdb are for, and we use the log in orbit.chat as the database for channel messages
<jfmherokiller[m]>
well rn im just happy that thought was coherent because its like 4am lol
<haad>
..or rather, that's how they work(ish) internally
<haad>
haha
<haad>
it's definitely coherent for a 4am thought :)
<jfmherokiller[m]>
but it was kind of a quick guestimation of how to link to messages together in order to allow some sort of chat history
<jfmherokiller[m]>
idk how it would handle more then 2 users
<jfmherokiller[m]>
also not sure about storing the "date" maybe unix timestamps?
<jfmherokiller[m]>
eg something like this? { message:"",username:"",date:0,lastSeenMessageHash:""}
<haad>
that's much more complicated but in short: instead of linked-list, we need a chain-like structure (which is close to a linked list) and for timestamp, instead of using wall-clocks, we need logical clocks (eg. lamport or vector clocks)
<jfmherokiller[m]>
but yea im gonna sleep i just popped in here since i saw it was active lol
<haad>
in that ^, the payload field contains the actual message
<jfmherokiller[m]>
so yep pretty much a chain where its linked in 1 direction?
<jfmherokiller[m]>
im guestimating from my small phone screen lol
<haad>
yup
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<avive>
anybody out there?
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<haad>
daviddias: question. when I have two node.js peers, both with a tcp address and "/0" port (ie. random), say in tests, it takes a while for the two to connect. excluding connecting directly to the peer (manually), what is the fastest way to get them connected? is there a flag I can set to say "try to connect in 1ms if possible"? :)
<daviddias>
haad: that is a chicken and egg problem
<daviddias>
you can dial to an addr you don't know
<daviddias>
if you decide on a port, you can add them to your bootstrap list
<haad>
daviddias: so there's no "speed up" the discovery flag I suppose? what about the MDNS params in the config, there's the "Interval" that is usually set to 10, does that have any effect?
<daviddias>
ah, you are not dialing directly, you are waiting for MDNS?
<jakobvarmose>
I'm having some problems with ipns name resolution. When I publish something it often fails to resolve from other computers. Is this normal?
<jakobvarmose>
I'm using some custom code so maybe I'm doing something wrong
<jakobvarmose>
or maybe I should configure my firewall better?
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<JCaesar>
jakobvarmose: It does take 30 seconsometimes take 30 seconds for me. but not work a talt all… no.
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<Steverman>
I have an upcoming university course about Augmented Reality in January, and I thought about integrating IPFS... somehow. Any ideas?
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<JCaesar>
That seems… far fetched? I mean, you can still use it as a base for the technical bits, but content-wise…
<Steverman>
:(
<Steverman>
I already convinced one of my professors to use it in his p2p course next year. That's around ~80 master level students that will be exposed to IPFS every year!
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<Steverman>
I suppose I could use it as a decentralized storage
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<jfmherokiller[m]>
i use it as storage and as a working method to watch movies with others eg old black and white ones
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<jfmherokiller[m]>
but im not sure if i should use the trickle dag for movies and stream oriented media or not?
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<ion>
For streams, I was thinking of each chunk having pointers to previous chunks with an exponentially growing interval going backwards, allowing you to seek into any past chunk through O(log n) chunks. To generate the current chunk's pointers, copy the previous chunk's pointers, add a pointer to the previous chunk and prune the list to retain the exponential behavior.
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<jfmherokiller[m]>
ion: well by streaming data i mean stuff like precored videos not live streaming. And im refrencing the command line option on the `ipfs add` command
<Steverman>
jfmherokiller[m]: could you repeat your question (if any)?
<jfmherokiller[m]>
well the `ipfs add` command lists a `--trickle` option but im not sure if thats meant for movies/videos or not
<jfmherokiller[m]>
sorry for using `'s in chat its how i usually quote things in markup and riot.im allows it
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<jfmherokiller[m]>
Steverman: ^
<Steverman>
Ah okay
<Steverman>
Nevermind then. Saw streaming (with and without live) and thought I might have an answer
<jfmherokiller[m]>
i think i tried to look it up at some point in the past and one of the github issues specificly refrenced video files
<jfmherokiller[m]>
and your answer would work for live streaming
<jfmherokiller[m]>
however you might want it to be linked both forwards and backwards just in case somone starts in the middle of the stream they can find the begining of it
<jfmherokiller[m]>
eg the near realtime point
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<jfmherokiller[m]>
i think orbit-db does that
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<jakobvarmose>
JCaesar, I guess it was a problem with my firewall. It works much better now
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<witten_>
so I, uh, made a prototype thing that lets you use js-ipfs without a web server or CDNs
<witten_>
I guess the thinking is that if IPFS is to be truly decentralized, you shouldn't have to go through a gateway. and if the browser is the target, ideally you wouldn't need to install any extra software like a local node