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<MikeFair>
o/!
<MikeFair>
Question, only because I'm faced with the prospect of running this on machiens that aren't always on or have limited resources; has anyone considered making a "reapeating cron job" version of IPFS?
<MikeFair>
Or more specifically, 'what would it take'?
<MikeFair>
I'm thinking that a small service that only managed a database of wants and provides by peers
<AphelionZ>
MikeFair: Expound!
<AphelionZ>
like a cron job that runs ipfs add / ipfs get every so often/
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<AphelionZ>
hmmm what exactly is preventing me from seeing tons and tons of peers in the browser? Is that the circuit relay thing or the dht thing? or something else?
<AphelionZ>
im trying to get something like a star topology of a central server-side node and a bunch of browsers
<AphelionZ>
cc MikeFair
<AphelionZ>
;)
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<MikeFair>
AphelionZ, \o/!!! :)
<AphelionZ>
hey!
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<MikeFair>
AphelionZ: It's interesting that the "mirror node" approach is exactly the same model that most CouchDB implementations use
<AphelionZ>
nice
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<AphelionZ>
here's what im considering doing...
<AphelionZ>
1. make an ajax call to my go-node's swarm/peers api
<AphelionZ>
2. use that value for the Swarm.Bootstrap config setting
<AphelionZ>
3. initialize the browser ipfs node
<AphelionZ>
but then i wont get any new peers that connect to the star, and i'll get a bunch of wierdos
<MikeFair>
I don't quite follow
<MikeFair>
oh wait
<MikeFair>
nm
<MikeFair>
you're seeding your browser ipfs node with the go-node's peerlist
<MikeFair>
But aren't you limited to the WebSocket peers; of which a Go node is unlikely to have any?
<AphelionZ>
yeah, i think you're right
<AphelionZ>
well, kind of right
<MikeFair>
It lookst like we need a "transports" query
<AphelionZ>
i have websockets enabled on the go node
<AphelionZ>
so i could filter that list by "/ws"
<AphelionZ>
which would match /ws and /wss
<AphelionZ>
and then i could dial those i guess
<AphelionZ>
thats kinda flimsy tho
<MikeFair>
Right, the way Unity handles this is it treats the "WebScoket" connections as a totally different network and the application has to deal with that
<AphelionZ>
interesting
<MikeFair>
Which is both nice and sucky depending on who you are
<AphelionZ>
i just want the browsers that are one hop away from my go node (or my server-side js-ipfs node, if that's somehow different/better)
<MikeFair>
Give some love to the DHT patch writers :)
<MikeFair>
Then this just goes away
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<AphelionZ>
i love them! they're my favorite
<MikeFair>
Me too!
<MikeFair>
Those guys are the most awesomest code authors lately!
<MikeFair>
though I do think a browser node is different than a service node
<MikeFair>
Did you see my comment/question about a cron based IPFS
<MikeFair>
I bring it up so that it can run on Shared Hosting websites
<AphelionZ>
yeah, what's the deal there
<AphelionZ>
i had asked you to expound but i thik you left already
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<MikeFair>
Obviously it's a different product; but my thinking is something like every 5-10 minutes it wakes up; reaches out to peers, exchanges a wants/provides list; does some providing and downloading; then quits
<AphelionZ>
i honestly don't see why that wouldnt be possible with the existing commands
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<AphelionZ>
start with the bookends: ipfs daemon & and then 10 mins later killall ipfs
<MikeFair>
oh interesting, using a short lived node js-ipfs
<AphelionZ>
yeah, or that
<AphelionZ>
ive proven you can use ipfs feasibly within a node.js script
<MikeFair>
The "website" would have to have hooks for uploading blocks
<MikeFair>
The idea being those who have received your wantlist call you back on the HTTP line, and upload a CID (your code checks the CID provided by the remote host to ensure it's something it wants)
<MikeFair>
Block File comes onto the local filesystem, then is "added" to IPFS
<AphelionZ>
yeah
<AphelionZ>
and you can add just fine without the daemon running
<MikeFair>
CRON wakes up ipfs, wash, rinse, repeat
<AphelionZ>
there's a lot you can do without the daemon running
<MikeFair>
I _have_ a shared webhost with an Apache server; I don't have permission to run long lived daemon service ;)
<MikeFair>
That's where my "pinning" service would be
<MikeFair>
That's actually an interesting thoughtline; use HTTP for block transfers
<MikeFair>
use p2p network for URL "routing"
<MikeFair>
Some kind of DNS-like service "What HTTP servers are currently providing CID XYZ"
<AphelionZ>
whats the process execution time limit
<MikeFair>
Don't know, I think it's CPU resources
<MikeFair>
and/or Memory limits
<AphelionZ>
gotcha
<MikeFair>
Message on the CLI after the daemon was terminted said something about CPU consumption limit
<AphelionZ>
haha cool
<AphelionZ>
did you time it?
<MikeFair>
after which port 4002 inbound/outbound were all blocked ;)
<AphelionZ>
hahahah
<AphelionZ>
hack the planet
<MikeFair>
no, I didn't even mean to leave it running
<MikeFair>
But they are right to kill it; but it got me thinking about this psuedo dilemma
<AphelionZ>
i wonder if i could use pubsub...
<AphelionZ>
just send a message whenever a peer connets
<AphelionZ>
connects*
<AphelionZ>
and have every browser peer subscribe to the same channel
<MikeFair>
I don't see why not
<MikeFair>
Isn't that what an OrbitDB database is though?
<MikeFair>
PubSub-Room
<MikeFair>
(which basically does exactly what you'd want; announcements on add/leave; messages to/from; etc
<AphelionZ>
ah, interesting
<MikeFair>
You know i think a simple "file uploader" web app to store/fetch CID blocks would be _very_ useful to folks
<AphelionZ>
i was researching pinning services
<MikeFair>
It's not a "FileSystem" in the sense of "real time"
<AphelionZ>
there's a few out there
<MikeFair>
Yeah but this is something much more "lightweight"
<MikeFair>
at least in my mind's eye it is
<MikeFair>
It's more "batchy" and "delayedish"
<AphelionZ>
gotcha
<MikeFair>
The IPFS Cache in my mind's eye is like an IPFS vault that the real time daemon works with
<MikeFair>
It pin things, it's constantly "working" to bitswap with peers, etc.
<MikeFair>
This HTTP thing is way less smart
<MikeFair>
It (1) keeps track of "peer URLs", (2) lights up and foreach URL do peer CID want/provide list exchange, (3) upload wants I've got, (4) quit
<MikeFair>
oh wait, (4) updates list of peer URLs
<MikeFair>
(5) quits
<MikeFair>
Then it's always listening for peers to upload something on the want list
<MikeFair>
totally async
<AphelionZ>
maybe send an email to users when its done
<MikeFair>
Upload request comes in, (1) Remote -> Local: "Do you still want CID XYZ?", (2) Local -> Remote: Yay/Nay, (3) On Yay, accept form submission for CID, (4) validate block is for CID (perhaps by adding it and getting the same CID back; delete on mismatch)
<MikeFair>
(5) quit
<MikeFair>
[Unless the upload user has authenticated; then take the upload and add the block]
<MikeFair>
Can also provide /ipfs/CID for locally stored blocks
<MikeFair>
An IPFS daemon can use such a node as an extension of its own cache
<MikeFair>
AphelionZ: Am I missing something obvious? That doesn't seem like a lot of code given all the support pacakages there are these days
<AphelionZ>
nah its really not
<MikeFair>
This makes it easy for shared web sites like mine to participate in IPFS; expired blocks from daemons can be pushed to these "offline nodes"
<MikeFair>
(from the ipfs swarm perspective)
<MikeFair>
I like that many websites can reuse the CID filenames in their "caches"
<MikeFair>
And it works with folks who have "shared hosting" or other basic website services; but not a full VPS
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<MikeFair>
The biggest problem I see atm is when I shut down my daemon service, my CIDs go "offline"
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<MikeFair>
But if my file cache can served out from an http server, then can remain online all the time
<MikeFair>
The CRON service will "slowly" propogate info about wants/provides
<MikeFair>
In the meantime the "online daemons" can be much more proactive and use the HTTP URLs they know about as "extensions" of their file cache as long as they do the additional validation work that the blocks they retrieve are the the blocks the CID identify
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<MikeFair>
Hmmm Ruby or Python....
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<AphelionZ>
daviddias: victorbjelkholm are either of you around today to help me with some questions about libp2p-websocket-star?
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<AphelionZ>
it looks like this address is timing out: /dns4/ws-star-signal-1.servep2p.com/tcp/443/wss/p2p-websocket-star/
<AphelionZ>
I'm wondering if there's a new one
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<AphelionZ>
trying the rendezvous server now
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<Steverman>
What exactly causes the CPU usage to rise so much when using webrtc-star? I noticed it goes absolutely bananas when transferring data. Idling does not impact the CPU usage that much
<AphelionZ>
I don't know that my IPFS peer id is the same for the rendezvous server versus the go-node's websocket swarm port
<Steverman>
One moment
<AphelionZ>
since one is node.js and the other is a go node
<AphelionZ>
k, thanks
<Steverman>
Oh.. you're trying to bootstrap directly through the rendezvous server?
<AphelionZ>
yeah my understanding is that it's equivalent to ipfs.swarm.connect
<AphelionZ>
is that not the case?
<AphelionZ>
what i want in the end is a star topology of browser nodes... with or without a central star server. I think the star server is necessary though?
<AphelionZ>
i just want as many peers that use my app connected as possible
<AphelionZ>
if not all of them
<Steverman>
Okay, I have done something similar between NodeJS <-> Browser
<AphelionZ>
what's the difference between Swarm and Bootstrap
<SerkanDevel[m]>
Is bootstrap for initializing?
<AphelionZ>
I thought it was just "these are the initial peers to connect to"
<Steverman>
I can't really give you a good answer on that. But Bootstrap connects to a known peer
<Steverman>
If the peer ID is generated on runtime... that'll be a little hard :)
<AphelionZ>
hmm damn that gave me all sorts of errors
<AphelionZ>
yeah haha
<Steverman>
What kind?
<AphelionZ>
oh wait hang on
<AphelionZ>
WebSocket connection to 'wss://us-east-2a.ipfs.tallylab.com:9091/' failed: WebSocket opening handshake timed out
<AphelionZ>
with this multiaddr: '/dns4/us-east-2a.ipfs.tallylab.com/tcp/9091/wss/p2p-websocket-star'
<Steverman>
Try without wss :)
<Steverman>
as in: ws
<AphelionZ>
I can't, chrome will get all uppity
<AphelionZ>
my bootstrap wss works fine
<Steverman>
SSL certificate?
<SerkanDevel[m]>
self-signed?
<AphelionZ>
same SSL cert for both
<AphelionZ>
nope, Let's Encrypt
<AphelionZ>
well, here
<Steverman>
It's actually called TLS now isn't it? :D
<AphelionZ>
ha
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<AphelionZ>
non-secure websocket is running at ws://us-east-2a.ipfs.tallylab.com:9090/
<AphelionZ>
oh fuck!
<AphelionZ>
burned by AWS security groups again
<AphelionZ>
hang on
<AphelionZ>
pardon my french
<AphelionZ>
this happens literally every single time I try to add a new port lol
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<AphelionZ>
well now at least I'm getting a 502 error lol
<AphelionZ>
it works!
<AphelionZ>
the wss connection anyway
<AphelionZ>
now we'll see about the peering
<Steverman>
:)
<AphelionZ>
YES
<AphelionZ>
I can see my laptop and my cell phone on the same network
<AphelionZ>
thanks for your help Steverman and SerkanDevel[m]
<AphelionZ>
even it might have been just "talking to the duck"
<Steverman>
I didn't know what you really wanted
<AphelionZ>
well, it was helpful for me to be able to at least attempt to talk it out
<AphelionZ>
so thank you
<AphelionZ>
I don't even know if I even need the go-node at all yet :/
<Steverman>
Been playing around with this for too long
<AphelionZ>
there's a lot.
<AphelionZ>
this is so cool though
<Steverman>
But it's not really decentralized :)
<AphelionZ>
no... it's not
<AphelionZ>
but until js-ipfs fixes DHT and Circuit Relay, it's kind of the best we've got
<Steverman>
Yeah
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<Steverman>
I made P2P live streaming, and it doesn't scale well
<AphelionZ>
that's still kinda cool though, is there a demo or a github repo or anything?
<Steverman>
webrtc-star completely wrecks the CPU. And websockets-star is not an option if traffic goes through one node
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<Steverman>
There is, but I am waiting for my grading from my university
<Steverman>
It's private
<AphelionZ>
sure
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<Steverman>
I think the proper bootstrap address is this: /dns4/us-east-2a.ipfs.tallylab.com/tcp/9091/wss/p2p-websocket-star/ipfs/QmUjqjKVmWiXJp9HxBJF7Z9Qke5ruNd6BGxwMGxgyM6Ry9
<Steverman>
You forgot '/p2p-websocket-star/'
<Steverman>
I haven't tested it though
<AphelionZ>
how did you get that ID?
<AphelionZ>
I mean, it works with what you sent
<Steverman>
You gave me it
<AphelionZ>
ok
<AphelionZ>
just doing "/dns4/us-east-2a.ipfs.tallylab.com/tcp/9091/wss/p2p-websocket-star/" seemed sufficient
<Steverman>
Yeah
<AphelionZ>
which is cool :)
<Steverman>
So the peers need to talk to each other?
<Steverman>
Or just the server
<AphelionZ>
they need to talk to each other - mostly for orbitDB replication
<AphelionZ>
I also need a UI element that essentially does autocomplete based on a partial peer ID
<AphelionZ>
like, we're gonna give people 7-character "codes" to actively link to each other
<AphelionZ>
and under the hood those 7-character codes are gonna be the last 7 characters in their peer ID
<Steverman>
Heh
<Steverman>
My professor joked that I should create Chatroulette/Omegle instead. Joke's on him. I'll do it now
<AphelionZ>
there's something like a 1 / XX,000,000 chance of a collision so I'm ok with that
<MikeFair>
It's a mockup/POC of an idea to make a "shared web host" compatible intermittent IPFS Node
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<MikeFair>
It's kind of the equivalent to what you might expect the command: ipfs runonce
<MikeFair>
to do
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<MikeFair>
Opinionating welcomed
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<MikeFair>
Currently it spits back the things you type in the fields, allows you to upload a file, and request it back
<MikeFair>
It lists uploaded files in the "provides" table
<MikeFair>
AUTH Ident/AUTH Token are only there for show; they do nothing
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<AphelionZ>
MikeFair: cool!
<AphelionZ>
Thats really neat. I cant wait to take a closer look
<MikeFair>
it's 127 lines of Python atm
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<projectonion[m]>
Hmm
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* MikeFair
looks at projectonion[m].
<MikeFair>
Tuning up for a choral solo?
<MikeFair>
;)
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<AphelionZ>
Hahah i was wondering the same thing
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<MikeFair>
AphelionZ, still there?
<AphelionZ>
Ya
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<MikeFair>
Ack (was looking elsewhere)
<MikeFair>
AphelionZ, sorry about that; didn't mean to vanish on ya
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<MikeFair>
So assuming you had endpoints that could request my DIMWIT's peer list, provides list, and want list, as a JSON download (using different PUT parameters to the index.cgi); that you can request a CID data block; and upload a CID block from my want list
<MikeFair>
s/index.cgi/ipfs.cg
<MikeFair>
i
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<MikeFair>
What more would a peering node need to interact with a DIMWIT host
<MikeFair>
This is different than the JS web page uploading content to be pinned on an IPFS node; which I think of as a separate use case
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<AphelionZ>
Hmmm... good question. Do you want to use my go node to experiment with?
<AphelionZ>
MikeFair
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<MikeFair>
Well it wouldn't be a Go Node I don't think
<MikeFair>
It doesn't speak the wire protocol --- though I guess I could make it API compatible
<MikeFair>
the http API that is
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<AphelionZ>
MikeFair: not sure what wire protocol is but my go node has websockets enabled fwiw
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<MikeFair>
AphelionZ, The wire protocol is the form of the data sent back and forth
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<MikeFair>
for example http is a wire protocol; it involves text information sent up/down from browser/server
<MikeFair>
SSH is another wire protocol
<MikeFair>
bitswap is another wire protocol
<AphelionZ>
Gotcha
<AphelionZ>
So you rolled your own here?
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<MikeFair>
yes
<MikeFair>
well no
<MikeFair>
it uses the HTTP protocol
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<MikeFair>
Which is just straight up web stuff; which si most likely not what nodes use when talking to each other
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<MikeFair>
WebSockets is a way to use dedicated comm channels that don't use HTTP between browsers
<MikeFair>
So this isn't those either
<MikeFair>
This is more of a CGI script to make a web server act kind of like an IPFS node