<TUSF>
Every node has a key that can be accessed through IPNS. Using "ipfs name publish", you can assign a new file to be accessable from your IPNS address.
<TUSF>
You can also use DNS records on a website, to tell nodes of an IPFS address to point to. For example, going to /ipns/ipfs.io will give you the the IPFS front-page.
<TUSF>
Meanwhile, IPLD is the format of the underlying data being sent through IPFS.
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<MikeFair>
TUFS: IPNS can also be used to publish custom keys by use of a specific KeyFile (you're not limited to just the one IPNS address)
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<MikeFair>
I wonder; leaving out for just a moment about security around modifying the IPNS references --- we can construct keypairs from shared secrets; so if I took a domain name, used it to construct a keypair, I could use the first key as the public key to get the IPNS address ; If I then further added the relative paths to the domain name from that root ----- we could construct a determinstic address for every "filename" using the
<MikeFair>
domain name as the "Volume ID"
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<MikeFair>
whyrusleeping, Am I correct in seeing that's a "Google for IPFS" centered around Ethereum BC?
<MikeFair>
whyrusleeping, They suck all the content through their servers and parse it
<Alpha64>
are they scanning ipfs links from contracts?
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<MikeFair>
So I own the dns domain fpent.net --- If I use "dns://fpent.net" to directly create an address hash, that yields an IPNS like address --- then the TXT entry that goes into DNS tells IPFS what private key is allowed to update that link
<MikeFair>
So rather than IPNS asking DNS "Hey, what's the IPNS address for this domain?"; The IPNS address is directly hashed from the domain text itself "dns://domain.dom"
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<MikeFair>
Then whenever an attempt is made to publish a new reference CID for that hash; IPFS queries DNS and asks "What's the IPNS address for the public key that secures this domain name"
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<rein_>
Not sure where to post this - but may be of interest to IPFS/IPLD community
<rein_>
It's been forever since I used IRC and I'm not even sure I recognize it lol
<rein_>
My apologies I don't intend to spam
* MikeFair
takes a look.
<MikeFair>
I'm definitely reminded of the dot-com boom where anyone with a web site and domain name was considered a great investment
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<AphelionZ>
if i have an orbitdb database in a browser, can I replicate it from node.js?
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<AphelionZ>
rein_: i/r/t that article... I'm currently long IPFS and short crypto
<AphelionZ>
that's probably an unpopular opinion given the crowd here but it is what it is
<MikeFair>
AphelionZ, You mean unpopular because the seemingly close ties to Ethereum?
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<AphelionZ>
yeah, I should preface all this by saying I actually think Filecoin is good / useful because it's not tired to proof of work
<AphelionZ>
tied* (freudian slip ha)
<MikeFair>
AphelionZ, I can't see any reason you shouldn't be able to replicate from Node.js .... I'm assuming you're running an http server in Node too
<AphelionZ>
but every dApp tutorial you see out there, IPFS is adjacent to Ethereum
<AphelionZ>
MikeFair: I'm not running an HTTP server in Node, no... just ipfs and orbit. Literally just running the replication code from the Getting Started guide
<MikeFair>
I'm not actually sure FileCoin is such a great idea myself
<AphelionZ>
well, I'm sure there's a healthy debate to be had about FileCoin but at least it won't cost the energy of X,000 nuclear reactors to run at scale
<MikeFair>
But what would you be replicateing "with"
<AphelionZ>
I can replicate across two browsers just fine
<MikeFair>
AphelionZ, hehe -- The Lightning Network is addressing that issue
<AphelionZ>
IPFS node in the browser with js-ipfs, orbitdb running in the browser
<AphelionZ>
they talk to each other just fine
<AphelionZ>
but if I put a node.js peer in the mix... no dice, yet
<MikeFair>
(If not Lightning, some equivalent --- basically the BTC chain will be acting like the ACH network does in the US an "Interbank Clearing Network")
<AphelionZ>
zzzZZZzzzzz
<AphelionZ>
like I said, I'm short crypto ;) but I'd rather be talking about my replication issue
* MikeFair
nods. "I've been thinking on that now"
<MikeFair>
fwiw, I don't think "against crypto" and "short crypto" are the same statement.
<AphelionZ>
well, I'm kinda both at the moment - there's definitely a rush going on
<MikeFair>
I know that browser js-ipfs is not the same as go-ipfs
<AphelionZ>
but you're right, i should be more linguistically precise with controversial statements
<AphelionZ>
but yeah... I just dont think they're peering :(
<AphelionZ>
which is a bummer
<AphelionZ>
I don't think js-ipfs in node and js-ipfs in the brower's pubsub can "hear" each other
<AphelionZ>
which is a huge bummer, tbh :(
<MikeFair>
That's why I was asking what you were replicating with
<AphelionZ>
yeah...
<AphelionZ>
help us whyrusleeping you're our only hope
<MikeFair>
browser2browser is js-ipfs 2 js-ipfs
<AphelionZ>
i could theoretically run it in a headless browser..................................
<AphelionZ>
that sounds horrendous but it might be more secure somehow
<AphelionZ>
just have my "server" be a bunch of headless browsers running hahaha
<MikeFair>
AphelionZ, that's why I was asking about an http server in node
<AphelionZ>
well, I dont think that would solve the problem the way a headless browser would
<AphelionZ>
but im not even sure a headless browser would solve the problem
<MikeFair>
Or you could add DHT and Content Routing to support to JS-IPFS ;)
<AphelionZ>
I could! be careful, or I just might ;)
<AphelionZ>
basically my idea is that I want to add persistent peers to the network to make it more robust
<MikeFair>
(That's the current "suspected" root on why go/js can't talk)
<AphelionZ>
to alleviate the issue that peers need to be online at the same time to share content
* MikeFair
muses about clickFarms in foreign countries
<AphelionZ>
yeah, basically that
<AphelionZ>
if there are peers that are "always on" then its the effective equivalent of having a persistent data store
<AphelionZ>
garbage collect them after XX days
<AphelionZ>
screw it, im gonna try it with headless chrome
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<engdesart>
AphelionZ: At least for those blocks/objects that are being requested by other nodes, and for routing.
<AphelionZ>
engdesart: at least how? It works? Or it doesnt?
<engdesart>
It "works" in two ways: the passing along of data between peers, what with being decentralized, and the hosting of blocks/objects. The latter only occurs if it is pinned locally, and even then if it is between similar clients (as js-ipfs and go-ipfs have some weird interactions and are kinda sorta not really intercompatible).
<engdesart>
IIRC, an object cached by a gateway, that came from go-ipfs, can then be accessed by js-ipfs, but not before.
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<engdesart>
I've also run into a few hashes some time ago that were accessible via the public gateway, but not via my local go-ipfs client, which I chalked up to the data being hosted on js-ipfs.
<AphelionZ>
Okay then I guess I need to troubleshoot why it's not working...
<AphelionZ>
Thank
<AphelionZ>
Thank you
<AphelionZ>
is there a way to check orbit using a gateway
<AphelionZ>
Orbit hashes
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<engdesart>
Unsure. I don't use Orbit, but you could know for sure if you manually accessed and downloaded it via the gateway due to its caching.
<AphelionZ>
I don't know that browser-based orbit ever reaches a gateway
<AphelionZ>
That might be part of the problem
<engdesart>
I mean if you manually copied the hashes and downloaded/viewed them via the public gateway, then that would cache it. But this sounds like a different problem.
<AphelionZ>
I could try adding my own gateways address to bootstrap
<AphelionZ>
Yeah I really need my note instance in my browser instance to peer
<engdesart>
That might help, especially if restarting the daemonfrequently. It might also help diagnosing things between go-ipfs and js-ipfs peers.
<AphelionZ>
Do those peer now???
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<MikeFair>
AphelionZ, Can you get the node id from your broswer instance and use the local CLI to have the daemon "connect" to it?
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<redfish>
is it valid to ipfs pin hash, where hash is an IPNS node id? will it recursively pin whatever children the hash currently resolves to?
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<engdesart>
redfish: I don't believe so. Hashes for content are different than hashes for nodes.
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<MikeFair>
redfish, check out ipns --follow
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<razzledazzle>
hello, ipfs dht findprovs lists the peer
<razzledazzle>
but the resource doesn't get transferred
<redfish>
engdesart: makes sense, probably have to 'name resolve' then pin. MikeFair: can't find --follow anywhere. you mean ipfs name?
<razzledazzle>
ipfs cat waits forever
<redfish>
also, how to remove a hash from the blockstore but keep it in the filestore? How to remove blocks returned by 'filestore dups'
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<razzledazzle>
what does this output suggest? dial attempt failed: context deadline exceeded
<razzledazzle>
I tried ipfs swarm connect
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<MikeFair>
redfish, yes ipfs name publish --follow I think
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<mithun>
whyrsleeping: Hii..I went through the document (Transferring a file with ipfs)which you shared on Friday. I was able to transfer a file from 'node A to node B'.
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<mithun>
whyrusleeping: can you hook me up with some demo javascript code showing uploading and retrieving data from IPFS
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<Kotak>
quit
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<nippi>
Boyz, is it possible to make custom protocol with libp2p over it's transport and discovery of nodes supporting that protocol over ipfs network?
<razzledazzle>
quick question, if bittorrent works, shouldn't ipfs too?
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<MikeFair>
razzledazzle, I guess the answer is "yes"; but it's a really strange statement / question
<MikeFair>
If downloading lots of little packets from one and ordering them computer works, then should taking each of those packets packets from lots of different computers and ordering them work too?
* MikeFair
wonders what his typist has been drinking.
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<nippi>
"Boyz, is it possible to make custom protocol with libp2p over it's transport and discovery of nodes supporting that protocol over ipfs network?"
<nippi>
anybody knows?
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<am_>
boooyz
<am_>
help him
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<Bat`O_>
am_: he is not connected anymore
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<nippi>
he is
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<Bat`O_>
nippi: i'm not sure what you want to do, but lip2p is designed to be extensible and to build application on top of it
<nippi>
I want some nodes would be able use my extension, and it is not clear for me if they would be able to find each other via ipfs
<nippi>
pubsub is actually good alternative, but it doesn't work now
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<Bat`O_>
i don't know if there is something specific in libp2p for that but you can use the pubsub for that
<nippi>
pubsub sucks now
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<nippi>
no public key signatures
<Bat`O_>
or store some data in the DHT and use findprov
<nippi>
You mean, that IPFS can't specify all internet map of nodes?
<Bat`O_>
findprovs is not meant to do that
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<Bat`O_>
it's meant to find some providers for a specific data
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<nippi>
So, actually how pubsub nodes are searched? :D
<nippi>
Or other developed "extensions"
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<Bat`O_>
as far as i know, pubsub doesn't use the dht
<nippi>
I mean I should probably send some data to network that I am able to serve pubsub, and I need other nodes that are able to do that or not?
<nippi>
Or is it wrong?
<Bat`O_>
i don't understand your question
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<nippi>
omg, how developers enable experimental features?
<nippi>
do they patch every node to make other nodes discover themself while developing?
<nippi>
or node just sending a list of protocols or whatever it supports
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<nippi>
If me and my friend will make it own version of pubsub, would we be able to connect? (no one more will support that version of pubsub)
<victorbjelkholm>
nippi: for js apps, you'll define the experimental features when starting a peer. Since it's your code being run on each peer, you decide which protocols each peer supports
<nippi>
so I can send random protocol names to network?
<nippi>
Where can I read about it, brah? :D
<victorbjelkholm>
when you first find a peer, there is a negotiation about what protocols are supported
<victorbjelkholm>
should be defined in github.com/libp2p/specs
<nippi>
Got it thx. So, actually if peer doesn't support it, will it notify other nodes?
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<victorbjelkholm>
nippi: if a peer doesn't support a protocol, other nodes won't be able to dial on that protocol. Not sure I understand what you mean with notify other nodes, all the negotiations happens directly between two peers, with no other peers involved.
<nippi>
I mean, if for example I fork 'pubsub' and call it 'keksub'. And my friend will do the same. But we will actually connect to bootstrap nodes, which doesn't know anything about that protocol. Will them reject us?
<nippi>
Or will advertise us to other nodes as nodes who use protocol 'keksub'
<nippi>
and we will be able to connect with my friend
<nippi>
via 'keksub'
<nippi>
directly
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<nippi>
Is it still unclear what I want?
<victorbjelkholm>
as long as you and your friend supports the /keksub/ protocol, you'll be able to connect. You won't be able to use the /keksub/ protocol with the boostrap nodes, as they don't support it. The discovery of peers is independent from your custom protocol, so you should still be able to find each other
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<JCaesar>
DokterBob1: Btw, does ipfs-search support some kind of reverse look-up? I.e. you give it a hash, it shows you in which folders that thing appears… (currently, it just displays "searching" for all eternity anyway…)
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<MikeFair>
JCaesar, The only thing I'm aware of like that is ipfs dht findprovs
<JCaesar>
But that'll give me peer ids. I'm looking for parent folders.
<MikeFair>
which does nothing like what you want; it gives you a list of some machines that are providing that content
<MikeFair>
JCaesar, There's no index for that
<JCaesar>
Are you sure that DokterBob1 doesn't have one?
<MikeFair>
which I'm aware of anyway --- but I'm not someone who would know either ;)
<MikeFair>
So you're envsioning you'd give it a CID; and in response you'd get a list of CIDs that represent directory blocks containing the given CID
<MikeFair>
The challenge I have there is that in a DAG, the pointers go parent->child and not the otherway around
<MikeFair>
(from a child node, there's no way to tell what parent candidates exist -- there may not be any as far as the child knows)
<JCaesar>
MikeFair: I'm aware of all of this. What I don't know is how the database behind http://ipfs-search.com looks.
<MikeFair>
ahhh
<MikeFair>
There was another one.... blockchain.io
<MikeFair>
maybe not that
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<MikeFair>
blockscan.com
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<nippi>
thx @victorbjelkholm
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<Powersource>
I'm trying to get streaming of a video to work (I've managed to load it and then play it, but not play while downloading). I've managed it with an image but the video doesn't want to load. Any ideas? Might it simply not work using render-media since it requires me to pass `opts` which .cat doesn't accept? https://github.com/viddist/viddist/blob/f917d5d3fff38a76bb6216981603c0fc0f257a40/index.js#L69
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<Bat`O_>
Powersource: not sure if it's your problem but you might want to try ipfs add --trickle for your video
<Bat`O_>
it will build a graph of chunk more suited for video streaming
<Powersource>
Bat`O_: I've wanted to try that, but the problem is that the video doesn't play at all. If it was added without trickle it should still play eventually
<Powersource>
wow I don't know if you see that but my client completely butchered your name because of the `
<Bat`O_>
it looks fine with irssi
<Bat`O_>
what client do you use ?
<Powersource>
riot with matrix, it's both the bridging and the fancy formatting that it tries to do that messes with it
<Bat`O_>
unfortunate indeed
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<MikeFair>
Anyone happen to know if two nodes do the following simultaneously: (1) Check for an IPNS hash; (2) Publish to that IPNS hash if it's missing using a Node specific CID value; (3) Resolve the IPNS hash and test to see if it refers to their own CID value
<MikeFair>
What are the odds of them getting two different answers
<MikeFair>
The nodes aren't aware of each other; this is kind of "speed of propogation" question and a "how reliable is IPNS publishing at preventing synchronized answers"
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<MikeFair>
err "providing" not "preventing"
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<MikeFair>
Can two nodes that publish a different CID to the same IPNS address (each independently having the private key to do so); and then resolving that IPNS address; each see their own respective local answer
<MikeFair>
?
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<Powersource>
DHT's, how do they work
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<Powersource>
Wild guess, they're timestamped and use whatever is published last and has reached them
<redfish>
re filestore: a nice feature would be to be able to pin from a hash into a filestore, when that hash is known to be a unixfs object.
<redfish>
the only way i can see to achieve that now is to wget -r via gateway, then add -r --nocopy; which is not sexy.
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<MDude>
Is it reccomended that I install IPFS under a user folder other than a shared one?
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<Icefoz_>
MDude: Either way works.
<MDude>
Since if I can keep the folder on an external hard drive without sharing its contents across all users, I'd rather do that.
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<MDude>
Well not external, but secondary, but still.
<Icefoz_>
MDude: It stores its data in the home directory of the user it's running as, so, whatever your use case is.
<MDude>
Ah, ok.
<MDude>
Thanks.
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<MikeFair>
okay all; I have "not quite ipfs" related system programming question --- I want to authenticate that a particular program connecting to this daemon (ipfs) is what it claims to be
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<MikeFair>
Assumptions are that I can reliably get the process id of the connecting process and inspect whatever values I want about it
<MikeFair>
For example, run a checksum on a key part of its ram image
<MikeFair>
Check the file path used for its command line
<DuClare>
I smell races already
<redfish>
MikeFair: use firewall for such purposes, can filter by user or group, run eligible process as allowed user
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<DuClare>
Yep, alternatively use local sockets and filesystem permissions
<MikeFair>
Well the problem is the application needs a secret vault
<MikeFair>
A vault that ideally only it can read
<MikeFair>
This vault will store TOTP seeds for users
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<MikeFair>
No matter what I did to encrypt the vault data, another application could deterministically predict the vault's key
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<MikeFair>
So then I realized, I need the vault to authenticate the process
<Icefoz_>
MikeFair: This sounds like the same sort of problem that DRM schemes try (poorly) to handle.
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<MikeFair>
not the otherway around
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<DuClare>
Why could another application predict the key?
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<MikeFair>
Because it's deterministically produced; it's not a key human beings should ever see
<MikeFair>
the "bot" (or process) in this case needs to make it
<Icefoz_>
I mean, if an XBox is trying to prove that a program on a game has been signed by Microsoft, then it's the same problem.
<MikeFair>
So I started with a "MachineId" and "Hard Drive Serial Number" (that kind of stuff
<Icefoz_>
At which point I would suggest trying to find a different way to solve your problem.
<DuClare>
Yep
<Icefoz_>
Because in the end you're not going to be able to trust a machine. You need to trust a human.
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<MikeFair>
You can't trust a human to keep a secret from the mahcines
<whyrusleeping>
MikeFair: have you heard of SGX?
<MikeFair>
whyrusleeping, I haven't
<Icefoz_>
You certainly can't trust a machine to keep a secret from humans.
<whyrusleeping>
thats basically what youre looking for
<whyrusleeping>
Icefoz_: if you trust intel, you can
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<whyrusleeping>
look at SGX
<Icefoz_>
All you can do is trust a machine to verify that a human is who they say they are.
<Icefoz_>
whyrusleeping: Why would we trust Intel? :-P
<Ronsor>
All DRM falls apart once you rely on a device in the user's possession to execute code
<Ronsor>
you've lost at any point where the user's device has to execute your code
<MikeFair>
Icefoz_, How can you trust that?
<Ronsor>
no matter how little
<Icefoz_>
MikeFair: Public key crypto. Assert that if someone has the private key matching your public key, they are who they say they are.
<MikeFair>
Icefoz_, So what happens if someone's private key is jacked?
<Ronsor>
then unfortunately, fraud occurs
<Icefoz_>
Then managing the private key becomes someone else's problem and you can program in peace.
<Ronsor>
whoever has the private key can fake who they are
<Icefoz_>
Then you talk to the person and establish a new keypair.
<Ronsor>
^ if that's possible
<Icefoz_>
Because the trust is between people, not machines.
<MikeFair>
Icefoz_, Doesn't matter -- ALL YOUR COIN ARE BELONG TO US now ;)
<Icefoz_>
All machine security comes down to trusting people in the end.
<Icefoz_>
MikeFair: Right, which is why cryptocurrency < existing financial systems.
<MikeFair>
Icefoz_, Yes, but I'm doing something about what I am trusting them with
<Ronsor>
no don't steal my coin
<MikeFair>
Icefoz_, I'm not trusting them with a private key; I'm trusting them with a changeable passphrase and TOTP token
<Icefoz_>
So a shared secret. Comes down to a similar thing.
<MikeFair>
Icefoz_, But you can't sign a PKI document with a changeable secret
* Icefoz_
shrugs, this is about as far as his knowledge goes.
<MikeFair>
Icefoz_, I'm sharing a secret with the bot (the TOTP seed)
<Icefoz_>
What are you *actually* trying to do?
<MikeFair>
Make a signing bot
<r0kk3rz>
MikeFair: whats the threat model here?
<Icefoz_>
What do you mean?
<MikeFair>
r0kk3rz, User's can't keep private keys private and wallets will still your signing key if they can see it
<whyrusleeping>
Ronsor: "All DRM falls apart once you rely on a device in the user's possession to execute code" <- this is not entirely tru
<whyrusleeping>
e
<MikeFair>
err steal
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<MikeFair>
r0kk3rz, Your wallet, since it can both generate txns and sign them -- is a threat
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<MikeFair>
r0kk3rz, So the only thing that can sign my keys is this bot
<MikeFair>
r0kk3rz, Err txns
<r0kk3rz>
sure, but you'll still need to trust it to a certain point
<MikeFair>
yep
<MikeFair>
I trust it to forget what it saw
<whyrusleeping>
SGX (until someone breaks it, which i'm definitely rooting for) allows you to trust the execution of specific code on untrusted machines
<MikeFair>
And to sign what I asked
<MikeFair>
and do nothing else
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<MikeFair>
But I can put that code into IPFS and pull the executable CID
<MikeFair>
to launch the bot
<r0kk3rz>
yeah, tbh this is why TPM/HSMs were invented, you make something so dumb that it cant really do anything else other than what its supposed to
<MikeFair>
whyrusleeping, Yeah, I didn't know that's what it was called
<r0kk3rz>
but silicon isnt exactly auditable...
<Icefoz_>
Sure it is.
<MikeFair>
r0kk3rz, I'm willing to trust the Intel CPU for the moment ; I just don't trust that all machines have SGX (non-intel)
<Ronsor>
whyrusleeping: I suppose it's only true if the user can tamper with the device
<Ronsor>
realistically anyway
<MikeFair>
Icefoz_, Really it isn't; you have no way to prove that the machines printed the layers in your file
<Icefoz_>
Publish the specification, publish the VHDL or whatever, publish the photos of the chips, buy a random assortment of chips, crack them open, verify the photos match what they should be.
<Icefoz_>
It's not *easy*.
<Ronsor>
also I've not much trust for modern Intel CPUs
<Ronsor>
in fact all cpus are not to be trusted
<Ronsor>
make your own out of logic gates
<MikeFair>
Ronsor, I'm with you, I'm rooting the open source CPU that I can print on the printer made by my other 3d printer ;)
<r0kk3rz>
maybe you use an FPGA instead, with auditable code
<MikeFair>
r0kk3rz, That's not bad
<Ronsor>
MikeFair: that would be awesome
<Ronsor>
at some point I want to make my own CPU
<Ronsor>
though I'm willing to trust tiny microcontrollers (e.g. ATTiny85)
* MikeFair
was already plannning on using FPGAs for this; but hadn't thought about the auditability aspect
<Ronsor>
they're so small they can't really do anything bad
<Ronsor>
unless in a targeted attack against you (in any case, then the logic gates could be tainted)
<MikeFair>
An IPFS CID that represents an FPGA program == awesome
<MikeFair>
IPFS Bootstraps your CPUs --- news @ 11 ;)
<Ronsor>
IPFS is a bit complicated to bootstrap CPUs with
<Ronsor>
it would be cool if a FPGA could use TFTP+UDP/IP in order to obtain a program
<MikeFair>
Ronsor, not if it's a VM
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<MikeFair>
whyrusleeping, okay, I'm trying to thing this through and I'm not sure SGX is what I can use
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<MikeFair>
err think
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<MikeFair>
ironically, I feel like I'm trying to give the bot some kind of "free will"
<MikeFair>
The thing it must protect is the TOTP seeds it's been asked to protect
<MikeFair>
I am actively choosing to make a security trade-off for the convenience of having changeable, recoverable passwords and totps code to sign things
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<MikeFair>
So what I'm going to send the bot is an encrypted packet that used my TOTP code to encrypt the data to send the bot my PKI passphrase
<MikeFair>
The bot has to be able to compute my TOTP code in order to decrypt the message
<MikeFair>
If anything else can compute that code, I'm sunk
<MikeFair>
So the bot needs to able to protect my TOTP seed
<Icefoz_>
This is what PKI is for.
<Icefoz_>
So the bot can store encrypted keys that it can't decrypt.
<MikeFair>
Icefoz_, But the bot needs to be able to sign for me -- it needs to be in the presence of my unencrypted private key
<Icefoz_>
Give the bot its own private key to sign with.
<MikeFair>
Right, and store it where?
<Icefoz_>
Okay I confess I'm still not really understanding what you're trying to do and why.
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<MikeFair>
okay, let's say the bot has a private key; when the process starts it needs to load the private key
<Icefoz_>
No.
<Icefoz_>
What is this bot and why does it exist.
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<Icefoz_>
What is the problem you are trying to solve?
<MikeFair>
This bot exists to sign things for people
<Icefoz_>
Why can't they sign things for themselves?
<MikeFair>
So people do not keep their own private keys
<Icefoz_>
Okay.
<Icefoz_>
THAT is a hard problem.
<MikeFair>
Because thye cannot be trusted to keep their secret keys secret
<MikeFair>
I have a solution taht I consider secure enough for most people
<MikeFair>
It's a signing bot, a really dumb, really small piece of code that only knows how to sign thigns and return them back to the requestor
<MikeFair>
But you have to authenticate to the bot
<Icefoz_>
All right, then what's the problem with that?
<Icefoz_>
The bot has a private key with a matching public key.
<Icefoz_>
If it can store my private keys safely it had better be able to store its own.
<MikeFair>
Right, I can use the public key to send it encrypted messages; encrypted with a secret the bot and I share
<MikeFair>
It's devising a scheme for the first part of that "if" I'm working out
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<MikeFair>
The bot needs to know that the request to sign actually came from me
<Icefoz_>
So you have a shared secret with the bot.
<MikeFair>
Right
<Icefoz_>
Or an asymmetric key, why not.
<MikeFair>
The bot needs to storethat secrete somehow
<Icefoz_>
Store it on an encrypted hard drive.
<MikeFair>
Well remember, I can't keep my private keys private
<MikeFair>
Icefoz_, What can see into that encrypted hard drive?
<Icefoz_>
The system running it?
<whyrusleeping>
MikeFair: you can put private keys inside SGX
<MikeFair>
right, any process running on it
<MikeFair>
whyrusleeping, really?
<whyrusleeping>
yeah
<whyrusleeping>
and the computer that its on cant get to them
<whyrusleeping>
you can establish an ssl connection to the SGX enclave, and know that unless ssl is broken, or intels certs get leaked, the communication is secure
<MikeFair>
whyrusleeping, Hmm, I understoof the Trusted Code Execution stuff, but not the data protection part
<whyrusleeping>
the memory that the trusted execution has access to is encrypted and separated in a tamper proof environment
<whyrusleeping>
though I saw somewhere that it might be susceptible to intels meltdown nonsense
<MikeFair>
persistent across reboots?
<whyrusleeping>
mmm, not sure
<whyrusleeping>
probably not
<MikeFair>
the reboots part is where it breaks down
<Icefoz_>
At some point you have to trust the computer the bot is running on.
<Icefoz_>
Whether you trust the OS because it's OpenBSD run by someone who knows what they're doing, or because it's using SGX, or whatever.
<MikeFair>
Icefoz_, Well what we can reasonably encrypt is an authenticated userid on a specifc machine
<whyrusleeping>
Icefoz_: thats what i'm saying, you don't have to with sgx
<whyrusleeping>
and it does actually look like you can persist SGX across reboots
<Icefoz_>
whyrusleeping: That just means you trust SGX I would think.
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<whyrusleeping>
fair
<MikeFair>
whyrusleeping, All I really need is some secret that only that process can create; perhaps that what SGX can give me
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<Icefoz_>
If you're using replacable shared secrets to let your users authenticate then I wouldn't think that the computer the bot is running on would be the weakest link in the chain.
* MikeFair
is willing to trust SGX
<whyrusleeping>
so, technical possibilities aside, I think that SGX is a bad thing, and hurts forward progress towards solving a lot of hard problems
<AphelionZ>
here's something interesting... I'm playing with js-ipfs in the browser... i didnt edit the config much and my bootstrap nodes are all /wss/
<Icefoz_>
Seems like using a yubikey or such to actually manage private keys sanely is easier.
<MikeFair>
Icefoz_, In practice, people rely on authorizing other people to do things on their behalf all the time
<AphelionZ>
however, my peer id is "/libp2p-webrtc-star/dns4/star-signal.cloud.ipfs.team/wss/ipfs/*
<AphelionZ>
and therefore I can't connect to it from the ipfs cli or from node.js js-ipfs
<Icefoz_>
MikeFair: Yeah but you can do that without giving them your private key.
<Icefoz_>
You don't teach someone to forge your signature so they can sign documents for you, you give them power of attorney.
<MikeFair>
AphelionZ, because it has a * in the name?
<AphelionZ>
that's what ipfs.id().addresses[0] is reporting
<MikeFair>
And the node.js is creating it's own stuff, not routing through a go daemon right?
<AphelionZ>
yeah there's no go daemon on this server
<MikeFair>
okay cool, you know we gotta check the obvious
* MikeFair
looks forward to _not_ having to check for that
<AphelionZ>
:)
<AphelionZ>
is anybody able to connect to that peer ID ^
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<MikeFair>
I only have go daemons available atm
<AphelionZ>
and we're fairly certain go and browser js-ipfs cant talk, yeah?
<MikeFair>
Yeah, the way I understand it is that I think they might be able to peer if explcitly told to connect to each
<MikeFair>
other, but not exchange info or something like that
<AphelionZ>
mm
<MikeFair>
AphelionZ, I haven't worked with the browser stuff much except for Interplanetary Pastebin (which I believe connected to a local Go instance)
<AphelionZ>
my interplanetary pastebin?
<AphelionZ>
or is there another one
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<MikeFair>
AphelionZ, No yours; when you first started out on it ;)
<AphelionZ>
cool :)
<AphelionZ>
i'll finish that soon after i ship a couple other distributed app things I'm working on
<MikeFair>
AphelionZ, I worked out using the IPNS as a dated history of CIDs ; though I think you found another route
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<MikeFair>
(i.e. you build a single "index file" and post that to the IPNS node for that session -- and Pastebin uses that to track the history of values and display it to others)
<AphelionZ>
right
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<MikeFair>
whyrusleeping, So assuming I didn't go the SGX route; my thinking was that the IPFS daemon would/could use a part of the memory image of the locally connecting process to build a CID
<MikeFair>
it would obviosuly have to be a fixed part
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<MikeFair>
That CID, well hash really because it's not retrivable on the ipfs network, would get mixed with a hardware/machineid and the userid executing the bot ; and that is the code which enables the bot to decrypt the data in its vault
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<TyrfingMjolnir>
I would like to upload and image to "the server"
<TyrfingMjolnir>
How?
<TyrfingMjolnir>
Swift4 in iOS and nodejs lts
<MikeFair>
TyrfingMjolnir, You mean add a graphic file to be available via ips?
<TyrfingMjolnir>
actually I would love to make that image from my iPhone so that this image can be downloaded from my phone by the others in the same room; not having to get the image from the server for each of them
<TyrfingMjolnir>
actually I would love to make that image available from my iPhone so that this image can be downloaded from my phone by the others in the same room; not having to get the image from the server for each of them
<MikeFair>
TyrfingMjolnir, And I assume "transfer by bluetooth" is too passe?
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<TyrfingMjolnir>
bluetooth may be OK
<TyrfingMjolnir>
but how do I make ipfs use bluetooth?
<TyrfingMjolnir>
It's an app like meetup
<MikeFair>
TyrfingMjolnir, oh I wasn't thinking IPFS at all; I was thinking your phone and their phone use bt file transfer
<TyrfingMjolnir>
One by one?
<TyrfingMjolnir>
How would that fit in the homepage?
<MikeFair>
Yep
<MikeFair>
There'd be no "internet" involved
<TyrfingMjolnir>
That does not make sense
<TyrfingMjolnir>
You mean just the image?
<MikeFair>
You only mentioned wanting other people in the room with getting an image file that's on your phone
<TyrfingMjolnir>
It's inside an app
<MikeFair>
right
<TyrfingMjolnir>
And people may want to share pictures all of them
<MikeFair>
your app I assumed
<TyrfingMjolnir>
In a collaborative manner
<TyrfingMjolnir>
Let's say there is 1500 people in the conference