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<simplegauss>
pfdietz: i just compiled the latest sbcl and tested my code, the optimization bug is still there
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<pfdietz>
Hmm. I guess it wasn't fixed yet.
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<sea>
Hey, is there a way to write an array to disk (format f "~S" ...) along with its type? When I read the array back in, the element-type is gone
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<beach>
Good morning everyone!
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<beach>
sea: No, there is not predefined printed representation for specialized array. You would have to invent your own.
<sea>
Alright, thanks
<sea>
I was gonna do that anyway so I could share data with C
<beach>
I am sorry to hear that.
<Kevslinger>
Hi beach!
<beach>
Hey Kevslinger. I take it y'all made it home?
<Kevslinger>
Indeed. We left Marbella Wednesday morning, and arrive in Philadelphia Wednesday late afternoon.
<beach>
Has the weather improved in Philadelphia since you left?
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<Kevslinger>
The day we left, Philly was very warm. During ELS, it snowed in Philly. This morning, it was very cold, then in the afternoon it was beautifully warm, and now tonigh it is cold again. This weekend is projected to be wonderful, though, so I am looking forward to that.
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<beach>
Oh, good.
<Kevslinger>
beach: Wow bordeaux is very humid today! Is it always like that?
<beach>
In the summer, fairly often, yes.
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<Kevslinger>
That's wild
<beach>
70% is what I see. That's not bad. :)
<Kevslinger>
::weather in Philadelphia
<Colleen>
Weather in Philadelphia: Clear at 6°C (feels like 4°C), 48% humidity, 2km/h wind, 1029hPa pressure.
<Kevslinger>
That is truly unbelievable. The humidity of Pennsylvania is one of my least favorite parts about it. Couldn't imagine even more water in the air
<beach>
There might be some Lisp jobs in Arizona. :)
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<beach>
Or undergraduate programs in your domain. :)
<Kevslinger>
::weather in Phoe
<Colleen>
Weather in Phoenix: Clear at 23°C, 18% humidity, 3km/h wind, 1014hPa pressure.
<Kevslinger>
ah, yes, much more suitable. Sounds like a plan :)
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<hajovonta>
hello
<makomo>
hi
<verisimilitude>
Hello there.
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<verisimilitude>
So, what are you all working on lately; with regards to Lisp, I've been primarily concerned with my ACUTE-TERMINAL-CONTROL abstract terminal library.
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<hajovonta>
I work on a statistics library.
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<verisimilitude>
What is it called, hajovonta?
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<hajovonta>
it has codename "nightwalker"
<verisimilitude>
Okay.
<verisimilitude>
Is the current state of the source publicly available?
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<phoe>
morniiiing
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<light2yellow>
I'm reading http://paulgraham.com/rootsoflisp.html and I cannot evaluate a lambda passed as an argument to another lambda on page 4: ((lambda (f) (f '(b c))) '(lambda (x) (cons 'a x))). it should yield (a b c) but instead slime 2.20 & sbcl 1.4.6 provide two "style-warning"s and abort with "function f is undefined". why so? I can do (lambda (x) (* x x) 5) normally, for example
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<phoe>
light2yellow: Graham, in his paper, describes a so-called Lisp 1, where functions and variables share a single namespace.
<MichaelRaskin>
Which is what Scheme/Guile/Racket do nowadays
<phoe>
In Common Lisp, the value of variable F and the function F are distinct; Common Lisp is a lisp-2.
<MichaelRaskin>
But Common Lisp is Lisp-2, so you need an explicit funcall to call a value as a function
<phoe>
MichaelRaskin: actually
<phoe>
I am surprised
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<phoe>
FUNCALL does not accept lists of form (lambda (foo) ...) as functions
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<phoe>
((lambda (f) (funcall f '(b c))) (lambda (x) (cons 'a x))) works for me
<random-nick>
the LAMBDA macros wraps the lambda expression in FUNCTION form
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<MichaelRaskin>
Right, Common Lisp _also_ wants you to wrap (function …) around the list to recognise that this actually describes a function
<random-nick>
s/in/in a/
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<light2yellow>
thanks
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<phoe>
light2yellow: a good choice of article though, I used that one to implement a half-working minimal Lisp in Haskell.
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<light2yellow>
phoe: I need to write something 10-page long about lisp (without further specification, literally), so I'm just trying to wrap my head around it first
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<phoe>
light2yellow: good idea! You can also fire up some sort of Lisp IDE and fiddle around with it while reading some sort of very introductory book.
<phoe>
if you already evaluate expressions in CL, it means you already have some sort of implementation installed.
<light2yellow>
phoe: thank you for the recommendations. I'm using spacemacs with slime as a repl, and scrolled through few chapters of that book (including the mentioned ones). however, it's more important to me to understand why lisp was/is an important idea, why and in what way it was/is revolutionary, what have its dialects brought etc., than to know how to do something in particular, so I'm reading more "analysis"
<light2yellow>
papers/articles, if I can define them so
<phoe>
light2yellow: spacemacs+slime is good, I use it as well
<phoe>
well, Lisp was revolutionary because it introduced concepts like IF/THEN/ELSE, first-class functions, recursion, GC, image-based programming, homoiconicity et cetera
<phoe>
most of which have now made their way into other languages, so that's a successful revolution.
<MichaelRaskin>
for if-then-else I would triple-check if Fortran had this from the beginning
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<phenoble>
Hi everyone
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<phoe>
hey phenoble
<phenoble>
I have a piece of lisp code in front of me that does some text/dom processing on (html-) mails. I am having problems with the output of german Sonderzeichen e.g. ß
<phoe>
phenoble: hmm. Which implementation do you use? What libraries do you use for DOM processing?
<phenoble>
Specifically, it looks as if (with-output-to-string) would return them using some kind of quoted printable representation
<phoe>
phenoble: can you pastebin exactly what you get?
<phenoble>
I must confess that I have not narrowed down the problem yet. I was hoping for this to be some obvious locale/encoding thing, fixable by adding something into .sbclrc .
<phenoble>
Is that possible?
<beach>
phenoble: If you read such a character and then output it to a string, it will be in the string unmodified.
<phenoble>
I am not at all set-up to do serious debugging. The code is quite involved.
<beach>
phenoble: So I don't think WITH-OUTPUT-TO-STRING is a problem.
<phenoble>
(in lisp)
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<phenoble>
beach: that's what I thought, but could not rule out. Thank you for the information.
<beach>
Sure.
<beach>
Now the question is what the input looks like if you are processing email.
<phoe>
phenoble: give us the input and the output to your code.
<beach>
That is not obvious at all.
<beach>
phenoble: What I mean is, if you do (with-output-to-string (var) (format var "~c" #\ß)), you get "ß".
<phenoble>
beach: yes, I understood. I am working on figuring out what the exact input to the call(s) is.
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<phenoble>
So the argument to with-output-to-string is not bound at the point of invocation. This confuses me.
<beach>
The VAR, you mean?
<beach>
WITH-OUTPUT-TO-STRING binds it to a string stream.
<sea>
It says 'affected by element-type', so it seems so, but I wanted to ask to be sure
<phoe>
sea: yep, WRITE-BYTE will accept an (unsigned-byte 32) and write it
<sea>
I do remember old textbooks had 'byte' as an arbitrary amount that you could redefine the length of, so it makes sense
<sea>
okay thanks
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<phoe>
wait a second
<phoe>
what will happen if we use the code from the CLHS example?
<phoe>
how many bits will get written in that case?
<phoe>
since UNSIGNED-BYTE is used as a type, without specialization
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<sea>
8 in that case, but maybe that's just a shorthand default coz everyone says bytes are 8 bits long today
<sea>
(I think)
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<pjb>
sea: more precisely, the standard guarantees you that when you (write-byte (the (unsigned-byte 32) 42)), then if you (read-byte) the same file with the same element-type and external-format, then you get back the same (unsigned-byte 32). (ie. 42 in this example).
<pjb>
sea: we cannot tell, from the standard, that only 32-bits are written.
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<pjb>
sea: eg. you may have choosen, or the :default external format may be a compressed format, so fewer bits would be used to store some (unsigned-byte 32), or more bits for some others.
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<pjb>
sea: or you may be storing your (unsigned-byte 32) on a devices that stores units of 10 decimal-digits. or four 9-bit bytes = 36 bits.
<pjb>
sea: see for example what sbcl does on (unsigned-byte 2) streams, vs. what clisp does.
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<rme>
finally home
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