jackdaniel changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language<http://cliki.net/> logs:<https://irclog.whitequark.org/lisp,http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/> | SBCL 1.4.5, CMUCL 21b, ECL 16.1.3, CCL 1.11.5, ABCL 1.5.0
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<rpg> hi, phoe -- back home now
<minion> rpg, memo from phoe: could you submit an issue with a proposal for making that function generic?
<aeth> oh, this is very fun
<aeth> type everything
<rpg> phoe: Done!
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<slyrus1> mfiano: around?
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<mfiano> slyrus1: yes
<slyrus1> I'm still thinking about this closure-common rune thing and trying to figure out a good approach.
<slyrus1> The problem is that the assumptions about rods/runes don't seem to be (always) true in current SBCL.
<mfiano> I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with any of that.
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<slyrus1> Ok. I'll keep digging.
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<ebzzry> Who uses Optima here?
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<beach> Good morning everyone!
<devon> Good evening
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<theemacsshibe[m]> morning!
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<ldb> evening
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<johnnymacs> ((S(K((S(KS))K)))((S((S(K((S(KS))K)))S))(KK)))
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<johnnymacs> The gold finch => (lambda (a) (lambda (b) (lambda (c) (b (c a)))))
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<ldb> currying
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<White_Flame> is there any name or notion for currying that can happen in any order? it always seems difficult to me to use currying, because it's not guaranteed which of the parameters I'd want to predefine
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<theemacsshibe[m]> i'd call it stir fry
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<phoe> White_Flame: how would you even do that?
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* theemacsshibe[m] sent a long message: theemacsshibe[m]_2018-04-13_05:35:29.txt <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/tbWgwDVOXjtwtfcslaGQxbDS>
<phoe> White_Flame: instead of multiple curries/rcurries, I use a straight up lambda call.
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<phoe> (lambda (a s d f g h j) (funcall a f s j d h g))
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<White_Flame> I mean, given (lambda (a b c) ..), maybe you want to set b first, then c, then a, or whatever, as separate steps
<White_Flame> but yeah, if you (lambda (b c a) (funcall thing a b c)), then you can curry the outer per ordering you want I guess
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<White_Flame> currying just seems awfully sequentially dependent to my eyes
<phoe> if it's about setting then better do an explicit let*
<phoe> because then a programmer will know that the order in which you bind these variables matters
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<phoe> since LET* means more than a LET
<White_Flame> "setting" as in holding on to a partially applied function, except choosing which parameter to apply first
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<phoe> oh, okay
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<johnnymacs> So what confuses me about lambda calculus is that everything in the program is stored inside of a single function all of the time
<johnnymacs> so when you start out with lambd calculus you can only hold one thing
<johnnymacs> So if the current function is a list it can't really do anything else to be a list
<johnnymacs> I need some combinators that will help me actually store multiple things at once and reference them
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<kqr> TIL "dwim" is a term of lisp origins
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<lieven> interlisp IIRC
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<jcowan_> Yes indeed. I've watched it do its stuff on broken code
<jcowan_> Eventually syntax extension was done by extending DWIM so that it would rewrite the new syntax into the old
<lieven> neat
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<kami> Hello #lisp
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<phoe> hey kami
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<phoe> minion: memo for beach: Hey! I have a question. We have a protocol, a generic function (FROB FOO), a protocol class FOO, a concrete class STANDARD-FOO, and its subclass NONSTANDARD-FOO. Should a protocol be able to mandate "direct" participation in a protocol for subclasses of FOO?
<minion> Remembered. I'll tell beach when he/she/it next speaks.
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<phoe> minion: memo for beach: By "direct" participation, I mean - there has to be a (defmethod frob ((foo nonstandard-foo)) ...) and not merely a (defmethod frob ((foo standard-foo)) ...)
<minion> Remembered. I'll tell beach when he/she/it next speaks.
<phoe> minion: memo for beach: This is meant to be used in cases where the protocol author requires that each of the participating classes specifies its own behavior and does not rely on its superclasses' methods.
<minion> Remembered. I'll tell beach when he/she/it next speaks.
<phoe> minion: The more I think about this idea, the less sane it seems to me, because it seems silly to put arbitrary limits like this. If NONSTANDARD-FOO merely logs some information to standard output, then it would be pointless to (defmethod frob ((foo nonstandard-foo)) (call-next-method)).
<minion> The more I think about this idea, the less sane it seems to me, because it seems silly to put arbitrary limits like this. If NONSTANDARD-FOO merely logs some information to standard output, then it would be pointless to (defmethod frob ((foo nonstandard-foo)) (call-next-method)): An error was encountered in lookup: Parse error:URI "https://www.cliki.net/The more I think about this idea, the less sane it seems to me, because it seems silly to put arbitrary lim
<phoe> minion: memo for beach: The more I think about this idea, the less sane it seems to me, because it seems silly to put arbitrary limits like this. If NONSTANDARD-FOO merely logs some information to standard output, then it would be pointless to (defmethod frob ((foo nonstandard-foo)) (call-next-method)).
<minion> Remembered. I'll tell beach when he/she/it next speaks.
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<_death> yes, it's silly
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<_death> minion: minion: memo for minion: minion
<minion> minion memo for minion minion: An error was encountered in lookup: Parse error:URI "https://www.cliki.net/minion memo for minion minion?source" contains illegal character #\ at position 28..
<_death> (incf sanitization)
<thblt> Not directly a common lisp question, but how would you implement a Lisp evaluator without any recursion (= without using the host language's recursion facilities)? I have a stack of pointers, so I was thinking of defining like 10 opcodes as invalid pointers and pushing them to the stack to determine the next operation. The eval loop would then start with something like " opcode = pop(); switch (opcode) {...". Is this a strange idea
<thblt> or the usual way to go? Thanks!
<thblt> FWIW, the WIP draft of the opcodes set is here: https://paste.thb.lt/1523617766.h.html
<jackdaniel> thblt: you may see bytecode interpreter implemented in ECL source code src/c/interpreter.d
<jackdaniel> which has code somewhat similar to what you describe
<thblt> jackdaniel: thanks for the pointer, downloading the source
<jackdaniel> sadly I won't be able to assist you further, I need to pack to Marbella
<jackdaniel> we are departing today's evening and I have planty of things to do :)
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<_death> jackdaniel: same here ;)
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<phoe> I am packing, too
<phoe> _death: thanks for the remark
<phoe> _death: I actually have to ask, why do you have an underscore in the beginning of your nick?
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<_death> the underscoreless nick is taken
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<jdz> _death: by the guy with a scythe?
<_death> he who rides binky
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<_death> I think I've been using "death" (used to be in caps) since 1998.. at least it's mine on some sites (github/reddit/hn)
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<flip214> well, DE4TH would also be an option for some people ...
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<_death> adeht yet another
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<beach> phoe: Yeah, I don't see that idea as useful.
<minion> beach, memo from phoe: Hey! I have a question. We have a protocol, a generic function (FROB FOO), a protocol class FOO, a concrete class STANDARD-FOO, and its subclass NONSTANDARD-FOO. Should a protocol be able to mandate "direct" participation in a protocol for subclasses of FOO?
<minion> beach, memo from phoe: This is meant to be used in cases where the protocol author requires that each of the participating classes specifies its own behavior and does not rely on its superclasses' methods.
<minion> beach, memo from phoe: By "direct" participation, I mean - there has to be a (defmethod frob ((foo nonstandard-foo)) ...) and not merely a (defmethod frob ((foo standard-foo)) ...)
<minion> beach, memo from phoe: The more I think about this idea, the less sane it seems to me, because it seems silly to put arbitrary limits like this. If NONSTANDARD-FOO merely logs some information to standard output, then it would be pointless to (defmethod frob ((foo nonstandard-foo)) (call-next-method)).
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<beach> jackdaniel: Still around?
<jackdaniel> yes, packing
<beach> jackdaniel: We have a reservation for a Flamenco restaurant on Wednesday night.
<beach> I think they open at 20:00.
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<jackdaniel> noted, thanks:)
<beach> See you then.
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<jackdaniel> see you \o
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<phoe> I'll be back in Poland by Wednesday 20:00.
<phoe> I arrive late Sunday and leave early Wednesday.
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<Shinmera> Speaking of ELS; for those not attending I recorded a practise run of my talk yesterday. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od6WI7JIJcQ
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<beach> I would like to watch it, but on this dinky laptop with free video drivers, it might be too painful.
<Shinmera> Well then just wait for the real deal on Tuesday :)
<beach> I think I will, yes. Let's hope some others take the bait.
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<beach> I started working a bit on WSCL. It turns out, the chapter files of the dpANS are quite modular, and the main material is in include files.
<beach> That should make it easier to just rewrite the chapter files, include them in a main LaTeX document, and just compile it.
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<beach> The, as modifications become necessary, copy one file at a time.
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<beach> I am doing WSCL stuff because it can be done more easily on this dinky laptop than (say) Second Climacs development.
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<p_l> I finally managed to make a reservation for conference and hotel
<p_l> pity that I see no more banquet option (I guess I was late) :(
<phoe> p_l: throw a mail on the mailing list, maybe it's still possible to add you.
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<HH47> ^X
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<Josh_2> The Lisp discord is nice
<phoe> Josh_2: it is, though the Lisp Discord server and the #lisp IRC channel usually go in their own ways and don't really interact with each other.
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<Josh_2> True that
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<easye> p_l: It doesn't look like I am going to be able to make ELS 2018, and I have a banquet slot, so perhaps you can use that?
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<phoe> easye: ouch. What is preventing you from attending?
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<easye> phoe: lost my credit card, need to work for Emotiq, plane tickets look pretty prohibitive at the moment.
<easye> I am real sad about this.
<phoe> Ouch. I see. I really wanted to see you at the conference.
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<phoe> Where would you need to fly from?
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<easye> Vienna.
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<ruste> Question, how do I make asdf load a system from the current directory rather than from quicklisp?
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<ruste> Hopefully without having to mess with an asdf configuration file.
<ruste> Surely there's a way to say "load it from here."
<ruste> Or have it default to checking the current directory.
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<Bike> (push the-current-directory asdf:*central-registry*) is the dumb yet effective way
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<Bike> though if the system also exists elsewhere i don't know hwich has priority
<Bike> i use quicklisp's local-projects for that
<ruste> Yeah, it's looking like the system in the registry has priority.
<ruste> I'd be curious to hear what their thinking was on that one.
<ruste> I've tried clearing the source registry and using clear-system just to make sure.
<ruste> It always re-loads from the registry rather than the current directory.
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<LdBeth> The intention of ASDF is maintaining a directory of links to asd files
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<LdBeth> with some thing like a package manager
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<ruste> I thought it was mostly to keep track of and load files in the correct order. I figured the whole package manager thing was incedental.
<ruste> Seems kind of strange not to have an option to load a system from a specific location without having it in the registry.
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<Bike> not incidental.
<Bike> there's also load-asd, but again, probably not so much for overrides
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<ruste> Ah, that could be what I'm looking for. I ended up loading everything manually, but if it comes to it I'll try load-asd in the future
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