<tnt> It's weird that changing the placer helps.
<adamgreig> yea...
<tnt> Oh wait, no nm.
<tnt> Can you try another seed ?
<adamgreig> sure
<adamgreig> first ten seeds all work with heap
<adamgreig> seed=1 works with sa
<adamgreig> though I don't see any difference in the output right up until failure when changing seed
<adamgreig> is it trying to place the gb in a used cell or something?
<adamgreig> 0 is the only one of the first ten seeds that fails with sa. guess i just got very unlucky
<tnt> The initial placement is a bit dumb, its just trying random location then check if it's valid, if not, it tries another random one , etc etc.
<adamgreig> so how come it's bombing out instead of trying another random one?
<tnt> And ... it can fall into a loop that only find invalid.
<adamgreig> ah
<tnt> Because it already placed other SB_GB in all the other location it oculd use for that one.
<tnt> (not all location are valid for all usage)
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<biostar> hey all. trying to build gp4par and make can't find the include files from the parent directories. suggestions?
<zignig> adamgreig: nice work on daqnet btw. It is an interesting read. learnt some more things about arp... ;)
<zignig> biostar: what OS are you using ?
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<tnt> adamgreig: I connected the led directly like it is on the icebreaker and many other boards ...
<tnt> didn't work either.
<tnt> I had to switch to a _blue_ led instead of red so that Vf is high enough and then it worked.
<whitequark> bibor: have you done git submodule update --init
<whitequark> ?
<whitequark> er, sorry, that was for biostar but they quit
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<adamgreig> tnt: I have 8ish hx8k all with red LEDs sinking into CDONE, the latest only using the internal pull-up and none external
<adamgreig> Wonder if you've gotten a very unlucky die
<adamgreig> But maybe the sense is different... I have the LED light up when CDONE is being pulled low
<adamgreig> So the LED is more of an error indicator
<tnt> adamgreig: well, it might depend on the red led .. i mean, even just putting a multimeter probe on it makes it works.
<adamgreig> :/
<tnt> Ah yeah, if you have the RED wired like that then, then Vf won't matter.
<tnt> I have the led light up when it's configured.
<adamgreig> Yea, it will always float to vddio
<tnt> I might end up doing that too ...
<adamgreig> If you just short CDONE to gnd does it stop booting? I'll give that a go on mine
<tnt> yes, it does.
<tnt> That's what I first tried on an idebreaker I put some tweezers across the done led (which shorts cdone to gnd basically).
<tnt> and it prevented it from booting ..
<keesj> so.. what is a proper fix for this. this "floating" to vddio because it is bad enough for 20 of my leds to light up
<keesj> do you need to control vddio itself?
<tnt> wait what ?
<tnt> the fix is to not use cdone to control a led in that way.
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<bibor> whitequark: thx for the reminder that I'm idling in this channel for the last ~5 years
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<gruetzkopf> o/
<tnt> bibor: hey, didn't even see you there :)
<bibor> \o
<bibor> o/
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<tnt> daveshah: Mmm ... when using .IO_STANDARD("SB_LVDS_INPUT"), you can't use that pin as output ?
<daveshah> I've never tried
<tnt> Mmm. I can't even find a syntax that next pnr accepts. Because I need to drive the _n but the SB_IO instance is on the _p for lvds input. And I can't instanciate another SB_IO on the _n without conflict.
<daveshah> Well, you could probably patch out that check and try
<tnt> I'll try in icecube to see what syntax (if any) it accepts and if ti works, then I'll tyr to make nextpnr accept that syntax too :p
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<tnt> Well .. I think it's just not supported ...
<tnt> I mean, you can turn on the output driver for the P side, but only the P side will be active. And there is no way to instanciate any kind of SB_IO for the N side, it's detected as a conflict and icecube ignores the placement constraint and put it somewhere else.
<tnt> So ... maybe the hw can do it, I'd have to hack nextpnr to try. But I don't really need it anyway so ... maybe later.
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<adamgreig> tnt: not that it helps use it as an input, but shouldn't the SB_IO be on the _n?
<adamgreig> use it as an output*
<daveshah> No, the SB_IO is always on the positive side
<daveshah> What's confusing is this is the "B" pin for LP/HX parts and the "A" pin for U/UP parts
<whitequark> that's pretty much singlehandedly responsible for nmigen having native support for adding inverters in front of diff pair IOBs
<adamgreig> oh right yep
<whitequark> because i can't imagine any other situation where you'd want to invert a diffpair in fabric
<whitequark> but this? this will require it *constantly*
<adamgreig> the ice app note does suggests you just route whatever way around is convenient and define polarity in fabric anyway
<daveshah> It's known to do that for PCB routing
<daveshah> Some ASICs have polarity registers for this reason
<whitequark> i think for outputs you have a mode where the output is inverted inside SB_IO
<whitequark> but only for registered outputs
<whitequark> and not for inputs
<whitequark> so i just added some code that instantiates SB_LUT4 (instances to match delay)
<daveshah> Obviously the one case this doesn't work so nicely is an SB_GB_IO
<daveshah> I guess technically you could invert the clock edge of every user
<daveshah> But that doesn't work for a few blocks like SPRAM
<whitequark> uh. crap. I add an inverter...
<whitequark> thanks for mentioning
<daveshah> That would create an interesting layout
<daveshah> Global to fabric into the inverter and then back through a SB_GB
<whitequark> well, not always
<whitequark> I mean I accept the combination of PinsN and GLOBAL=1
<whitequark> I used to accept*, just committed it
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