jackdaniel changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language | <http://cliki.net/> <https://irclog.tymoon.eu/freenode/%23lisp> <https://irclog.whitequark.org/lisp> <http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/> | SBCL 1.5.4, CMUCL 21b, ECL 16.1.3, CCL 1.11.5, ABCL 1.5.0
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<beach> Good morning everyone!
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<defaultxr> hi. i want to do something like (ql:quickload :foo) (foo:blah) but when i have this in a file, i get "Package FOO does not exist". how can i make it so that (foo:blah) is run after "foo" is actually loaded and the package exists?
<no-defun-allowed> Well, the issue (in a file that is going to be compiled) is that FOO:BLAH is read before :FOO is loaded.
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<pjb> defaultxr: you're confusing systems and packages. They have nothing in common.
<pjb> defaultxr: does your system named "foo" define a package named "FOO"? (Notice the different case!)
<no-defun-allowed> You may want to create an ASDF system for your program, which can depend on the system FOO, which will then create the package FOO before it loads your compiled file.
<pjb> defaultxr: when you put those two forms in a file, the behavior will depend on whether you compile the file or not.
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<pjb> defaultxr: to compile the file, you need to execute parts of it, namely the quickload form, so that the package defined by the system are defined in the compiler, so that the compiler may then read and compile the following form.
<pjb> defaultxr: to load it (situation = :execute), it's good as is, since the semantics of load already ensure that each form is evaluated before the next is read.
<pjb> defaultxr: so to compile this file, you need to write (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :execute) (ql:quickload :foo)) (foo:blah) assuming the system "foo" defines a package "FOO" exporting the foo:blah function.
<pjb> defaultxr: for this reason, we prefer to define systems with their dependencies. Then the file would contain just (foo:blah), and you will have a system: (asdf:defsystem :foo-caller (:depends-on :foo) (:components (:file "foo-caller"))) then instead of loading foo-caller.lisp, you will (ql:quickload :foo-caller).
<defaultxr> thanks, both of you
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<LdBeth> I suppose this can be solved with a eval-when form wrapped around (ql:quickload
<LdBeth> Correct me if it’s an abuse
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<flip214> What's the compatible way to use CHECK-TYPE with a foreign pointer? Things like SB-SAP are not that universal...
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<no-defun-allowed> Are you using CFFI? There would probably be an alias in there.
<flip214> no-defun-allowed: yes, I am. thanks for the idea, looking.
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<flip214> FOREIGN-POINTER looks good.
<no-defun-allowed> Sounds about right.
<no-defun-allowed> "The pointers’ representations differ from implementation to implementation and have different types. foreign-pointer provides a portable type alias to each of these types."
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<dansimon> Hi guys, I'm wondering how to write output to a file without the lisp parenthesis (the code: https://pastebin.com/WviKzx6c). Any help would be wonderful :)
<dansimon> with-output-to-string..? how would I use that in this code..?
<dlowe> dansimon: have you tried using write or write-line?
<dlowe> with-output-to-string does the opposite of writing to a file
<dlowe> it allows you to treat a string like a file you can write into
<dlowe> dansimon: you might be interested in the #clschool channel, too
<dansimon> Oh
<dansimon> Yeah, that might be the right place, I'm new to this :)
<dansimon> would that be (write-line (format note "~a~%" *args*)) ..?
<dlowe> the format is writing to note
<dlowe> in your example
<dlowe> if note is the file you want to write to, that should be enough.
<dansimon> the code writes to the file, but (in parenthesis), I want the raw string without ()
<dlowe> that's because *args* is a list, so it prints the lisp representation of a list
<dansimon> yes, I figured as much. so I need to convert it somehow...
<dlowe> You can either write each arg individually with a loop, or you can use format directives like (format note "~{~a~^ ~}~%" *args*)
<dansimon> Aha!
<dansimon> dlowe: It worked! Thanks man :D
<dlowe> np.
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<stylewarning> Does CL guarantee that SET-DIFFERENCE will return a list with no two pairs of element equal under :TEST?
<Bike> you're giving a list with duplicates as the first argument?
<stylewarning> Bike: yeah, maybe
<Bike> i don't think it's mentioned, so i wouldn't rely on it.
<Bike> the description of n/union says duplicate elements in an argument may or may not appear in the result
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<stylewarning> I'd venture to guess a reasonable implementation of SET-DIFFERENCE is going to be something like (remove-if {xi is in y} x), which would not delete duplicate elements that are not being subtracted off.
<Bike> yes.
<Bike> i mean fundamentally they're supposed to be sets, so no duplicates
<stylewarning> well a set doesn't really imply a data structure, just a membership test
<stylewarning> lisp ought to have made sets functions
<stylewarning> (I kid, but the academic in me would have appreciated it.)
<Bike> it would be nice for some things.
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<pjb> stylewarning: you can always use bit-vectors for sets…
<pjb> (bit-andc2 #*1100 #*1010) #| --> #*0100 |#
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<oni-on-ion> anyone need some work done? =)
<stylewarning> pjb: I prefer integers, and only for sets that have a reasonably easy bijection with natural numbers
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<mfiano> Does asdf or quicklisp have a special variable that it binds (and shadows for dependencies) for the system currently being loaded?
<Bike> Don't think so.
<Bike> I don't think asdf makes the assumption that systems are loaded all at once anyway. Like there could be a plan that interleaves loading files from two non-dependent systems.
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<jgkamat> Does anyone know how to use 'setq' on a function in cl? For example, (setq my-var #'+)
<Oladon_work> jgkamat: Could you give a bit more detail on what you're trying to accomplish?
<mfiano> Bike: I see, thanks
<jgkamat> Oladon_work: I would like to have a global variable that stores a function that can be changed (which will update everywhere its called), and ideally I would like to avoid using funcall/apply everywhere
<mfiano> jgkamat: You shouldn't ever need to use `setq`.
<Bike> (setf (fdefinition 'foo) #'+) (foo 3 4) => 7. is that what you'd like?
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<jgkamat> Bike: thanks, that's perfect :)
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<ober> so will we still be using the clhs in 20 years?
<p_l> Possible. Maybe we will arrange an update in next 20 years but somewhat doubtful
<pjb> ober: I hope so.
<pjb> At least, long after nobody knows what perl is.
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<White_Flame> ober: the main thing to consider is who would be represented in making an updated spec
<White_Flame> obviously, back in the day Lisp was an industrial & academic language, so there was able to be a collection of monied organizations driving a fairly unified effort
<White_Flame> nowadays things are a lot different. Anybody can of course release their new language design, but it won't be in unity with the broad CL community
<White_Flame> at the very least, I would love to see some cleanup, deprecation, and inclusion of some modern platform stuff (threads, I/O, unicode, etc) formalized
<White_Flame> because that could be well accepted, without rocking the boat too hard. As well as a library to provide CLHS-94 compatibility if things are removed or incompatibly modified
<White_Flame> and that sort of thing is "in the spirit" of Common Lisp, in terms of bringing together the commonalities of a number of disparate progressions
<aeth> White_Flame: I would assume that the only required participants would be the major implementation authors.
<White_Flame> well, it's also feedback from teh users of the language that need to be represented in new/modified feature sets
<White_Flame> in a commercial basis, that's more well known as there is customer support
<White_Flame> for the open ones, it's just a bunch of people arguing :)
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<aeth> White_Flame: obviously alexandria or cl-ppcre would have more influence/input than cl-brainfuck just based on number of users
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<pjb> White_Flame: anybody can do it. Beach started to do it.
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<pjb> White_Flame: for example: https://github.com/robert-strandh/CL-reference
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