jackdaniel changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language | <http://cliki.net/> <https://irclog.tymoon.eu/freenode/%23lisp> <https://irclog.whitequark.org/lisp> <http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/> | SBCL 1.5.4, CMUCL 21b, ECL 16.1.3, CCL 1.11.5, ABCL 1.5.0
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<Kundry_Wag> LdBeth: Interesting, thanks
<Kundry_Wag> no-defun-allowed: Lazy evaluation is not equal to normal-order evaluation. See https://sookocheff.com/post/fp/evaluating-lambda-expressions/
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<LdBeth> Kundry_Wag: actually the semantics are the same
<LdBeth> As long as referential transparency is kept
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<krwq> is it possible to define macroexpansion-time dynamic bindings? i.e. https://pastebin.com/0zzG03XD so that (foo) won't do anything but (with-test (foo)) will print "test"
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<LdBeth> No
<krwq> is there some other construct I could use to achieve something along these lines?
<Bike> krwq: no. what you can do is expand to a symbol macrolet, and then in FOO macroexpand it.
<Bike> i.e., with-test = `(symbol-macrolet ((secret '((format t "test~%")))) ,@body), (defmacro foo (&environment env) `(progn ,@(macroexpand-1 'secret env)))
<krwq> Bike: thanks let me play around with that
<Bike> or more directly, (defmacro with-test (&body body) `(macrolet ((foo () (format t "test~%"))) ,@body))
<Bike> er, missing a quote
<Bike> you get the idea though
<krwq> Bike: pretty cool, I haven't used &environment before
<krwq> Bike: is there some lecture or something I could read on what else I could do with it?
<krwq> Bike: and to achieve "by default print nothing" presumably I should just use DEFINE-SYMBOL-MACRO with same symbol which expands to nothing?
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<krwq> actually seems nil macroexpands to nil
<krwq> anyway, will play around
<Bike> krwq: (define-symbol-macro secret nil), yes
<Bike> and (defmacro foo ()) for the macrolet version
<Bike> i don't know of any lectures
<Bike> but that's basically it, you can use it as a compile time binding
<Bike> &environment for anything but macroexpansion is pretty undefined. you can also sort of use it to differentiate compilation environments but that's rarely a thing
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<krwq> ahh, I missed at first that macrolet is defined after expansion - pretty cool way to achieve this Bike
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<jgodbout> minion: registration, please?
<minion> The URL https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/users/sign_in?secret=97efae33 will be valid until 01:30 UTC.
<krwq> jgodbout: what's that for?
<krwq> minion: help
<minion> There are multiple help modules. Try ``/msg minion help kind'', where kind is one of: "lookups", "helping others", "adding terms", "aliasing terms", "forgetting", "memos", "avoiding memos", "nicknames", "goodies", "eliza", "advice", "apropos", "acronyms".
<jgodbout> Suppose to be an editor for the boston-lisp project, but having a hard time linking an account...
<jgodbout> Trying to login through the Github option says account is blocked, while trying to use the google option says email already in use...
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<seok> How do I pass json encoded string to lisp functions with YASON?
<seok> When I use (yason:encode x) it just prints the JSON to standard-output but passes lisp object (hash, arrays) to the function without conversion
<seok> I wish to pass encoded JSON string to outer function
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<pjb> seok: (lisp-function json-encoded-string)
<pjb> seok: perhaps: (lisp-function (with-output-to-string (yason:encode x)))
<pjb> seok: read the documentation of yason:encode !!!
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<TMA> is there an "almost standard" way to represent map/dictionary/hashtable literals? (almost standard means widely accepted as for example asdf, cffi, bordeaux-threads, cl-ppcre or hunchentoot)
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<LdBeth> TMA: alexandria ?
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<flip214> TMA: how about #.(alexandria:alist-to-hash-table '((:key1 . 1) (:key2 . 2))) ?
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<fiveop> (defclass my-op (asdf:non-propagating-operation) ()) (defmethod asdf:perform ((o my-op) c) (print c)) (asdf:operate 'my-op :alexandria) => no output
<fiveop> What am I missing?
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<jackdaniel> problem description ,)
<fiveop> I expect at least 'perform ((o my-op) (c system))' to be called, and thus a representation of the system alexandria to be printed.
<fiveop> but it isn't
<jackdaniel> your snippet prints here #<system "alexandraia"> and returns two values, operation and a plan
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<fiveop> hm
<jackdaniel> fiveop: asdf caches results of operations
<jackdaniel> so it will print only the first time
<jackdaniel> try restarting your image and pasting it
<fiveop> That helped, I must have messed something up (eventually, it told me there is no package asdf)
<jackdaniel> quicklisp calls (require 'asdf) if it is not present
<jackdaniel> otherwise you need to call it yourself
<jackdaniel> or put it in the rc file
<fiveop> It should be and was there (because of quicklisp)
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<fiveop> deriving from asdf:downward-operation I got where I wanted: perform called for my-op on all dependencies of the system
<fiveop> (asdf:clear-system :alexandria) allowed me to run the op multiple times with full effects
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<TMA> LdBeth: flip214: thanks.
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<mfiano> TMA: serapeum has DICT for arbitrarily nested representations
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<mfiano> (serapeum:dict :a 1 :b 2 :c (serapeum:dict :a 10 :b 20 :c 30)) (serapeum:href * :c :b) ; => 20
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<aeth> I use the word "hash" for literal hash-tables, which matches Racket's API iirc. So e.g. (hash :foo 42)
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<aeth> If you don't want to pull in a massive utility library, it's very tiny, and it could even be done in 3 lines if you wanted to do it in a more straightforward but less reliable way: https://gitlab.com/zombie-raptor/zombie-raptor/blob/754bbc15bab6486d58e1ce848ba2782f78ca5e83/util/util.lisp#L559-577
<aeth> It's basically just turning a plist into a psetf.
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<aeth> href is another thing that looks trivial. I could probably spin this off into a micro-library.
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<mfiano> It's already in my micro library available on quicklisp
<TMA> this is looking more and more less and less like a consensus
<aeth> TMA: The problem is it's not standard and it's not (afaik) in alexandria so everyone writes it themselves because it's so trivial.
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<aeth> I've seen several #h reader macros, too, but ime the regular macro is simpler because you don't have to worry about the editor doing things like messing up the indentation
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<mfiano> or doing it correctly by using named-readtables and annotating each file that needs to alter the read table
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<risto> minion: registration, please?
<minion> The URL https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/users/sign_in?secret=425a64dd will be valid until 22:00 UTC.
<aeth> mfiano: Does using named-readtables stop the editor from taking a multiline #h(:foo 42 :bar 43) and aligning the :bar indentation with 42 instead of with :foo? I don't think it does, unless that has changed since I last tried to use a macro like that.
<aeth> s/a macro/a reader macro/
<mfiano> That doesn't occur for me even without named-readtables. keywords are aligned. There is a slime/sly option for it if it's not the default
<mfiano> and no, named-readtables would need to be aware of that process or use shinmera's trivial indent to add portable rules
<aeth> mfiano: that is weird... maybe it did change to be reader-macro-aware since I last tried it, which was years ago
<mfiano> I use Sly though, so could be why it's different. It fixes a lot of strangeness with slime and has better defaults
<mfiano> Anyway, I'm off
<aeth> mfiano: Interesting, it did change!
<aeth> mfiano: That's good to know!
<aeth> I just did a test with my example and :bar aligns with :foo now, which it didn't used to do. I must've last tried this many years ago, though.
<aeth> I guess #h is viable now
<aeth> My bad. I guess even in the Common Lisp world, knowledge can go out of date.
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<edgar-rft> aeth: it's not your fault, it's the real world that has moved away from the knowledge
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<aeth> edgar-rft: Well, I can tell you for sure that if you're a time traveller or if time moves backwards for you, then you shouldn't use reader macros where you want plists to align properly.
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<LdBeth> Good morning everyone
<no-defun-allowed> Good morning LdBeth
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