jackdaniel changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language | <http://cliki.net/> <https://irclog.tymoon.eu/freenode/%23lisp> <https://irclog.whitequark.org/lisp> <http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/> | SBCL 1.5.4, CMUCL 21b, ECL 16.1.3, CCL 1.11.5, ABCL 1.5.0
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<drmeister_> PuercoPop: Thank you - I looked into that. I'm trying to figure out what it does relative to Shinmera's "staple" system.
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<mikeds> drmeister_: what's wrong with keeping it simple/texinfo?
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<mikeds> most of these auto-documentation generators end up being practically worse
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<mrcode_> is there any crypto library out that in CL that does curve 25519 calculations ?
<no-defun-allowed> mrcode_: Ironclad includes Ed25519 signatures and Curve25519 key exchange
<mrcode_> no-defun-allowed: i tried finding it but no luck...
<mrcode_> no mention of 25519 in source
<mrcode_> or at least in the manual
<no-defun-allowed> Are you sure? I'm looking at https://github.com/sharplispers/ironclad and 25519 comes up about ten times.
<mrcode_> We couldn’t find any code matching '25519' in sharplispers/ironclad
<no-defun-allowed> That was just in the README.
<mrcode_> ah
<mrcode_> fml
<mrcode_> gotcha
<mrcode_> ok
<mrcode_> thx
<mrcode_> :)
<no-defun-allowed> Would you mind trying: (ql:quickload :ironclad) (ironclad:generate-key-pair :ed25519)
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<mrcode_> yeah, works great
<mrcode_> thx a lot
<mrcode_> saved me tons of hours of debugging...
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<beach> Good morning everyone!
<LdBeth> Hello beach
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<splittist> hello all
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<Krystof> good morning
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<beach> Hello splittist. Hello Krystof.
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<gabbiel> does anyone know how to use &rest arguments with methods?
<gabbiel> for example, I want a glue generic function that will take &rest atoms and "glue" them
<gabbiel> (glue 1 2 3) => 123
<gabbiel> (glue 'foo 'bar) -> foobar
<gabbiel> (glue "quux" "dog" "kenz") => "quuxdogkenz"
<no-defun-allowed> can't specialise on &rest arguments, but maybe something like (defun glue (&rest parts) (reduce #'glue-two-parts parts)) could work
<gabbiel> i actually did that
<no-defun-allowed> or, use the printer: (defun glue (&rest parts) (format nil "~{~a~}" parts))
<gabbiel> it just seems better to be able to glue as many things as I want like with (glue 1 2 3)
<no-defun-allowed> wait, you mean (glue 1 2) is the number 12 instead of the string "12"?
<gabbiel> yes
<no-defun-allowed> and what if we try (glue 1 "dog")?
<gabbiel> you can't, that's an error
<LdBeth> (defun foo (&rest a) (reduce #'bar a)) then specializes on bar
<LdBeth> Depends on what you actually want
<_death> in that case you can also (defgeneric glue (first &rest rest))
<gabbiel> _death: ill try this, seems a good idea
<asdf_asdf_asdf> (defun glue (&rest x) (print (nth 1 x))) => GLUE (glue 1 2 3) => 2
<gabbiel> asdf_asdf_asdf: maybe I should capture output in a string and mapc 'princ
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<gabbiel> and then read-from-string
<asdf_asdf_asdf> so far, whole OK?
<gabbiel> strings are a problem though, maybe I should drop strings since i dont have a use for them yet
<pjb> gabbiel: you can use &rest in generic functions, but methods are not dispatched on other than mandatory arguments.
<gabbiel> pjb: ill keep that in mind
<gabbiel> thanks
<ggole> You could write glue2 with a generic function and then fold it over the argument list of a non-dispatching function
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<pjb> gabbiel: infering the type of the result is probably wrong. instead, pass the type of the result as first argument, like with concatenate or map.
<gabbiel> nice code, i see that you handled cases where gluing didn't make sense
<gabbiel> but im torn between handling those cases or letting the method dispatch fail
<gabbiel> but maybe handling them is better
<gabbiel> ill add the (left string) (right integer) case, thanks for the code though
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<pjb> gabbiel: who's to say that it doesn't make sense?
<pjb> gabbiel: notice that (glue 1 0 0 2) #| --> 12 |#
<pjb> gabbiel: notice that (glue 1 -2 3 -4) #| ERROR: The value #C(0.60206 1.3643763) is not of the expected type real. |#
<gabbiel> (glue 1 0 0 2) should return 1002 though
<pjb> gabbiel: (defun glue (&rest args) (with-output-to-string (*standard-output*) (mapc (function princ) args))) (glue 1 'two "three" 1 0 0 2 1 -2 3 -4) #| --> "1twothree10021-23-4" |#
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<pjb> gabbiel: what I'm saying is that your problem is not function or method, &rest or not. Your problem is to specify what you want.
<gabbiel> true
<gabbiel> it dawned on me that glue should literally glue it, so it follows that gluing integers and strings makes sense
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<gabbiel> its only the return value where there is ambiguity
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<gabbiel> but gluing strings then would be like so
<gabbiel> (glue "foo" "bar") => "foo\"\"bar"
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<gabbiel> only gluing integers and symbols seem sensible
<beach> I think what you want to do is very unusual.
<gabbiel> I only came about this "glue" business to glue integers for a backtracking algorithm
<beach> That kind of operation is more useful for output and not for creating new objects.
<gabbiel> i tried to extend gluing to symbols and strings, which arose ambiguity and design problems
<gabbiel> maybe I should have stuck with just integers
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<pjb> gabbiel: glueing still doesn't mean anything. Why should (glue 12 34) return 1234 instead of say 802 ?
<pjb> gabbiel: ie. why do you use the base ten textual representations and concatenate them, instead of the base two or something else?
<pjb> gabbiel: isn't + a better glue for integers?
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<pjb> gabbiel: obviously, you can define any arithmetic operation, but what meaning does that have?
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<jonatack> mrcode_: git grep 25519 from within the ironclad repository turns up tons of results... git grep is your friend ;)
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<gabbiel> pjb: well, for my use case, I needed to "glue" integers and then "explode" the result to get the individual digits so that I could sum them up and divide by the length of the explosion
<LdBeth> Then just print to string • concat • read back
<gabbiel> pjb: i understand your points, I guess this is more an operation on the literal symbols that represent a number
<gabbiel> LdBeth: that is how I initially defined it
<LdBeth> Or you reimplement what’ve used to print and read back digits
<LdBeth> It’s just do mod div/add shift
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<pjb> gabbiel: you should probably just convert your stuff to strings, and process only strings.
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<Josh_2> Should I use json for config files? is there a better alternative? just need to store some user configured values and then import them into my program when it starts up
<Josh_2> I already use json for something else so thought I could just use that
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<LdBeth> you could dump configs to a set of setf's
<LdBeth> so the config can be set to the lisp file to load during startup when you save the lisp image
<Josh_2> currently I just have a bunch of defparameters but thats not acceptable for normies
<LdBeth> depends on will your app has a config panel/who's your target user what so ever
<LdBeth> or will your user able to access a json/xml editor
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<pjb> Josh_2: "Should I use JSON for …?" The answer is always "NO!".
<Josh_2> pjb: xD I am currently using json to store data sorry
<pjb> Josh_2: just use lisp. Basically: (load #P"~/.myapp.lisp")
<Josh_2> hek
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<Josh_2> i'll use xml. What is a recommended library?
<Josh_2> I was on cliki but there are so many...
<Xach> I use CXML and related things for xml
<pjb> Josh_2: the XML syntax is too complex for normies!
<pjb> (defparameter *param* value) is simplier syntax.
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<sjl> JSON is fine, especially if you're already using it. You could also make the config file just be a single plist of (:opt1 "val" :opt2 "val") and use a safe reader that doesn't allow arbitrary code execution
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<Josh_2> Xach which CXML library do you use? There are 3 on quickdocs :O
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<_death> had some fun with ecl the other day... mpv https://adeht.org/dump/vid-2019-08-14T1836.mkv
<Josh_2> Xach Thanks
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<jmercouris> anyone using Mezzano as an OS?
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<aeth> jmercouris: maybe ebrasca
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<jmercouris> aeth: is froggey on irc ever?
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<aeth> rarely, but sometimes
<aeth> jmercouris: ebrasca is on all of the time, and is the #2 contributor on Github: https://github.com/froggey/Mezzano/graphs/contributors
<jmercouris> can someone explain the motivation behind Mezzano? it is like a ten year project
<jmercouris> already, and I am wondering what the end goal is, is it an academic exercise or?
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<aeth> jmercouris: if they have (or add) a non-graphical mode, then it could be used as a thin VM for CL servers
<jmercouris> aeth: so the idea would be to run CL apps on baremetal? would it be faster than simply running SBCL on some nix?
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<aeth> jmercouris: well, baremetal will imo always be impractical because of the drivers issue, but "bare" VM could work. If you're going to run things in "the cloud" anyway.
<aeth> Mezzano on Linux instead of SBCL on Linux on Linux
<Xach> this is an interesting line of discussion from someone writing their own web browser.
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<froggey> jmercouris: yes, I'm here a lot
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<aeth> oops, I haven't seen froggey on in a while
<aeth> my bad
<froggey> np. I don't talk much here
<froggey> jmercouris: yes, it'd faster and much more sensible to just use SBCL on Linux
<froggey> there's no specific end goal, just my personal amusement
<Josh_2> Quite the project for some amusement :)
<aeth> froggey: Can it run a web server?
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<froggey> but ask ebrasca, iirc they were doing something related to that
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<jmercouris> froggey: that is quite the consistent dedication to a project!
<jmercouris> froggey: do you think one day Mezzano can practically serve as a desktop OS for a Lisp user?
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<cosimone> hello everyone, is anyone here using opencv from common lisp? i found these bindings: https://github.com/byulparan/common-cv and https://github.com/ryepup/cl-opencv, not sure how good/up to date they are
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<cosimone> is there something better? what do you suggest instead? of course, i'm also open to suggestion about other, preferably lisp-native computer vision libraries if you know any
<cosimone> *suggestions
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<froggey> jmercouris: I doubt it, shit is hard. but it gives me something to shoot for
<Oladon_wfh> cosimone: What's the signal you're looking for when you ask if they're "up to date"?
<cosimone> Oladon_wfh, uhm, well, let's define it as "cover a reasonable amount of functionality of a recent version (at least 3)"
<cosimone> i.e. i'd obviously prefer avoiding abandoned projects
<Oladon_wfh> Why?
<cosimone> you never know, i prefer something maintained over something that is not
<Oladon_wfh> Why, though?
<Oladon_wfh> There are a lot of Lisp projects that aren't "maintained" because they don't need any "maintenance"
<cosimone> ok, but if there are two reasonably equivalent projects, one maintained and one that isn't i'd go with the former
<cosimone> i'm not saying unmaintained --> bad
<Oladon_wfh> I'm saying "maintained" --> incomplete, or bad
<cosimone> why?
<Oladon_wfh> Define "maintenance"
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<cosimone> i regret asking for help, sorry but i'm not really into such pointless discussions
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<cl-arthur> Seems pretty self-evident maintenance'll be necessary if something wraps a moving target.
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<jmercouris> yes, anything with an FFI is a moving target, and a newer version will also have new functionality
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<cl-arthur> cosimone: maybe there's some useful tidbits in https://www.reddit.com/r/lisp/comments/1t162e/question_cl_computer_vision_library/ for you. Alternatively, the first of the links you gave mentions supporting openCV 3. Might be most of the groundwork's been done so you could decently easily extend it if something you need isn't covered? (Or maybe that's somewhat hit and miss.)
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<cosimone> cl-arthur, thanks for pointing those out, but it seems the first bindings i found work quite well for what i need for now
<cosimone> it also includes some illustrateves examples, and they work ootb
<cosimone> i'll definitely check those out anyway
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<cl-arthur> cosimone: have fun! :)
<cosimone> >Much of the core of the C++ OpenCV library (I have not used the earlier C one) is implementing similar abstractions to those already provided by Common Lisp.
<cosimone> interesting observation though
<random-nick> does closer-mop mean closer to MOP or CLOSer MOP?
<cl-arthur> https://github.com/pcostanza/closer-mop : "Closer to MOP is a ..."
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