jackdaniel changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language | <http://cliki.net/> <https://irclog.tymoon.eu/freenode/%23lisp> <https://irclog.whitequark.org/lisp> <http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/> | SBCL 1.5.4, CMUCL 21b, ECL 16.1.3, CCL 1.11.5, ABCL 1.5.0
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<astronavt> does CL have a standardized or otherwise common async framework?
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<no-defun-allowed> cl-async is pretty common
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<LdBeth> Compile to C language can still be fast, if enough optimizations are done at high level, or C unboxed datatypes are directly utilized.
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<mfiano> Is there any way to have a macro _expand to_ a read-eval form (#.) such that it is evaluated only once _after_ expansion before compile-time?
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<mfiano> My use case is to allow users to register the file of the DSL they are writing so it can lookup relative assets without requiring the user to fill in a path or have asdf-specific functionality in the codebase, by expanding to something like (setf *foo* #.(or *compile-file-truename* *load-truename*))
<LdBeth> You can try to write a macro expends to eval-when form
<LdBeth> And set the variable parameters
<mfiano> Probably should just use load-time-value maybe
<mfiano> I'll play around, thanks
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<remexre> is there a way to drop into a REPL at a given point?
<remexre> specifically, I'm embedding abcl into a larger java application, and wanna be able to drop into a REPL at certain points
<Bike> your java application will need to support it, then. you know, have a text display and input and stuff
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<beach> Good morning everyone!
<LdBeth> morning, beach
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<aeth> LdBeth: My point was that any language on a platform has to be judged as its own language.
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<remexre> eh, Bike left, but the java app is CLI; the default abcl repl is fine, I just don't know how to call into it "safely"
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<krwq> hey guys, I frequently find myself writing macros with following pattern (example oversimplified): https://pastebin.com/yUGJLEdK - is there some easy way so that (declare (ignore ...)) will be moved to the outer scope? I found that I usually have to do this through lambda + funcall which is the solution I'm not a fan of
<Bike> you could expand to `(defun ,name (,@args &aux (,something (+ 1 3))) ,@body)
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<semz> pretty sure that would break when args contains an &aux of its own
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<semz> though i suppose nothing would stop him from parsing args on his own and extracting &aux arguments, even if it's a bit ugly
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<Bike> it would break. i figured &rest args meant all required, not a lambda list, but eh
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<krwq> Bike: semz: I guess aux would work for most simple cases and for the more comples I guess I'd have to parse the lambda-list and combine passed in aux with my own aux?
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<krwq> s/comples/complex
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<amerlyq> I'm trying to compile multi-binary image $ cl-launch --output /tmp/myexe --dump '!' --lisp sbcl -DE example/main ./main.lisp
<amerlyq> But: Image dump required but neither dump file nor output file specified
<amerlyq> What am I doing wrong?
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<Bike> krwq: something like that.
<Bike> honestly if it was me i'd laze out and just say &aux isn't allowed
<Bike> well, or just not have this macro, and instead write one to do the binding
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<jmercouris> anyone know of any cryptocurrency miners implemented in Common Lisp?
<minion> jmercouris, memo from pjb: If you use parenthetical characters, it's easy to make emacs (or paredit) understand them if it doesn't already.
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<jmercouris> pjb: a good point...
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<krwq> Bike: thanks - makes sense - I actually like seperate macro solution - although not always applicable
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<krwq> btw do you guys know if there is a way to manually create presentations which slime would understand?
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<pjb> krwq: This page is no longer available. It has either expired, been removed by its creator, or removed by one of the Pastebin staff.
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<krwq> pjb: that's already answered but here you go for reference: https://pastebin.com/LaZYCjqb
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<White_Flame> krwq: you could also have a separate optional macro location for declarations
<colluphid> What specifically do you love about lisp? I see people rave about how much they love lisp but I'm having trouble getting into it.
<White_Flame> metaprogramming
<White_Flame> regularity
<White_Flame> multi-paradigm
<White_Flame> compactness
<White_Flame> (in the large, it's not a code golfing language)
<White_Flame> and it has all these features while being very fast
<colluphid> White_Flate: I've seen metaprogramming mentioned a few times. Do you know of any good code examples to get my head around it?
<White_Flame> have you done any manual metaprogramming/code generation in other languages?
<colluphid> I have not
<White_Flame> yeah, it's not done that often in other languages, because it's a massive pain in the neck
<White_Flame> lisp makes it easy enough that it looks trivial in tutorials, and people tend to ask "what's the point?"
<White_Flame> but basically, if you've ever wanted to generate/customize code bodies, or insert boilerplate (which could be data setup, or usage contracts & assertions, or register things at compile-time), or be able to pass around bodies of code to insert inside tests without being evaluated first, then tahth sort of thing is really easy inlisp
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<White_Flame> one of the most simple examples is creating intialization data forms
<White_Flame> in C, for instance, you might have tons of lines #define'ing various names to similarly-shaped stuff
<p_l> or creating "wrappers" that manage temporary objects for you
<White_Flame> in Lisp, you could have a basic list of names/numbers, and have a macro expand that out to a list of defconstant forms with all the boilerplate inserted, all in lisp, all inline, all using standard list operations
<White_Flame> p_l: yeah, you can define custom scopes. C++ RAII does some of that, but in a limited and fairly clunky way
<White_Flame> as well as Python custom "with" bodies (I forget their name)
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<White_Flame> since the Lisp generating that code is just normal programming code, you can transform and parameterize the generated source code in any way you want, without being constrained by the RAII/with-management API
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<p_l> `with` in various languages tends to be incapable of changing bindings or other bits of environment
<White_Flame> yep
<p_l> so you can't make things like CL:WITH-OUTPUT-TO-STRING other than by temporarily replacing a possibly global value (thus not thread-safe)
<White_Flame> and just for colluphid, a with-output-to-string scope remaps stdout to a string buffer and returns that. And it's fully implementable in a plain user macro, doesn't need any runtime support
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<White_Flame> if you find yourself beating your head against language limitations of any form in other langauges, Lisp is a godsend
<pjb> krwq: I thought so. I use com.informatimago.common-lisp.lisp-sexp.source-form:parse-body.
<White_Flame> but if you haven't hit that yet, then it's kind of hard to see the advantages
<colluphid> huh thats pretty neat, thanks White_Flame and p_L
<White_Flame> colluphid: oh, another _major_ advantage is the runtime/REPL nature of Lisp
<White_Flame> you can develop while the program is running, and test function calls immediately
<pjb> krwq: ^
<colluphid> yeah that for sure was a big help debugging stuff
<White_Flame> there doesn't even need to be a "main()" in your Lisp project ;)
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<krwq> pjb: thank you!
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<seok> Hi guys, how do I (use-package) or (defpackage (:use...) with exceptions on symbols not to import?
<seok> For example iterate:iter often collides with other packages
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<vms14> seok: I know you can use :import-from and :shadow
<vms14> but idk how to ignore
<seok> Yeah, I know :import-from
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<seok> I believe I've read about being able to pass exceptions on symbols not to import
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<seok> Just can't remember where I've seen it
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<mfiano> defpackage-plus has :import-except.
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<pjb> seok: (defpackage "FOO" (:use) (:export "A" "B")) (defpackage "BAR" (:use "FOO") (:shadow "B")) (mapcar (lambda (name) (multiple-value-list (find-symbol name "BAR"))) '("A" "B")) #| --> ((FOO:A :INHERITED) (BAR::B :INTERNAL)) |#
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