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<Entropy512>
<Kaik541> Entropy512: ping - p0ng
<Entropy512>
<methril> and what do you think about sammy code? - is epicfail
<Entropy512>
turning on MMC_CAP_ERASE for kernels that will run on devices with eMMC chips that will fail to handle the ERASE command in an unrecoverable manner = EPIC FAIL
<Kaik541>
Entropy512: I need a CWM for galaxy note for wiki instructions
<Kaik541>
the teamhacksung wiki doesn't have anything =/
<Entropy512>
CWM for galaxy note???
<Entropy512>
is in teh kernel
<Entropy512>
just like any other Samsung
<Entropy512>
and due to the superbrick clusterfuck
<Kaik541>
Entropy512: yeah but I need one for instructions
<Entropy512>
first post of XDA includes a CWM-enabled kernel
<Entropy512>
(ofc you can just pull the boot.img from any nightly to get a "safe" CWM-enabled kernel - won't be useful for anything other than flashing CM9 though, but that's all you really need...)
<Kaik541>
Entropy512: guess I'm having trouble finding which thread you mean
<Kaik541>
Entropy512: nah we need one that can boot on "stock" of some sort so a user can copy the files over their storage
<Kaik541>
Entropy512: is that for coming from stock ICS or gingerbread?
<Entropy512>
that kernel, if you Odin it, is safe coming from anywhere
<Entropy512>
if you're coming from any ICS you had better use it
<Entropy512>
if coming from CWM-enabled Gingerbread of any sort you should be OK to flash CM9 in CWM
<Kaik541>
Entropy512: wait what
<Entropy512>
well any ICS other than hardcore or franco's ICS kernels
<Entropy512>
since they've been "safed" regarding Superbrick
<Kaik541>
Entropy512: let me ask better, is that kernel a repack of an ICS or GB kernel?
<Entropy512>
that kernel is not a repack of any sort - it's an extracted boot.img from a nightly
<Kaik541>
Entropy512: blah I need a kernel that can boot a stock ROM with CWM in it
<Kaik541>
this is useless to users because they'd have to put the stuff on their zip before they did anything
<Kaik541>
and most users have no idea how to handle that
<Kaik541>
because users are stupid
<Entropy512>
put the stuff on their zip???
<Kaik541>
put the zip on their storage*
<Entropy512>
put two zips on their sdcard
<Kaik541>
sorry, tired, been doing a lot of wiki stuff today
<Entropy512>
then odin that kernel
<Entropy512>
enter CWM
<Entropy512>
flash the zips
<Kaik541>
Entropy512: yes but my point is you would have to put the zip's on the storage BEFORE flashing the kernel
<Kaik541>
which is completely useless to auser
<Entropy512>
hmm - speeedmod, DAFUQ, or franco - all are valid CWM-enabled ICS kernels
<Entropy512>
all of which have MMC_CAP_ERASE disabled
<Kaik541>
yeah I'm looking at speedmod
<Kaik541>
I know and trust hardcore
<Entropy512>
but if you've got a working device
<Entropy512>
put your damn zips on it before flashing your CWM-enabled kernel
<Entropy512>
users on note need to do their fucking research before flashing
<Entropy512>
since there's a pile of dangerous kernels out there
<Kaik541>
Entropy512: but the wiki guides aren't set up like that, and users are fucking stupid
<Entropy512>
well stupid users who can't read the damn instructions will fux0r their eMMC in an unrecoverable manner
<Entropy512>
stock ICS is dangerous as fuck
<Entropy512>
can't get any simpler than - put two zips on your SDCard
<Entropy512>
odin this kernel
<Entropy512>
enter CWM and flash the zips
<Kaik541>
Entropy512: but again, look at the CM wiki, we do "CWM first, then zips" which is why I didn't just grab a random boot.img from a nightly
<Entropy512>
sorry - but try to get any simpler than that and you risk triggering Superbrick
<Kaik541>
if users do something to get recovery, they expect the device to "work" after that even without flashing CWM
<Kaik541>
because, again, users are stupid
<Entropy512>
well - stupid users who can't read instructions carefully will torch their eMMC on Exynos devices
<Kaik541>
Entropy512: which is why the instructions are supposed to be idiot proof
<Entropy512>
dangerous kernels are all over the place
<Entropy512>
can't get any simpler than
<Kaik541>
the idea is you flash stock ICS, then you flash this kernel, then you go to CM... done and done
<Entropy512>
put these zips on your SD
<Entropy512>
Odin this kernel
<Kaik541>
Entropy512: listen to me, I understand what you're saying, but you're not listening to me
<Entropy512>
three-finger to CWM
<Kaik541>
that isn't how the wiki is set up
<Entropy512>
flash the zips
<Kaik541>
the wiki has a universally consistent layout: "backup if possible, root (if necessary), CWM, zip's, flash"
<Kaik541>
we aren't going to change that because one device is being a baby
<Entropy512>
well, sorry - you can't do that when Samsung has released piles of dangerous kernels via OTA
<Entropy512>
pretty much any stock ICS = dangerous
<Kaik541>
Entropy512: why can't we? we aren't telling the users to do anything with stock ICS
<Kaik541>
all they have to do is have it on the device
<Entropy512>
well you can't get any simpler than
<Entropy512>
put zips on device
<Kaik541>
Entropy512: shut up
<Entropy512>
Odin a safe kernel
<Kaik541>
I understand the words you are saying, seriously
<Entropy512>
to get CWM
<Kaik541>
but repeating it isn't going to change my mind
<Entropy512>
you can't get CWM without Odining a safe kernel
<Kaik541>
yes I understand that
<Entropy512>
since Mobile Odin occasionally fails to flash
<Entropy512>
don't trust it
<Entropy512>
because that could lead to a user being on an unsafe kernel
<Kaik541>
and again, what does it matter if they're on a stock samsung kernel for like 5 minutes?
<Kaik541>
they're going to be replacing it with a safe kernel that will still boot their device
<Entropy512>
that's exactly what I'm saying
<Entropy512>
put these zips on your SD
<Entropy512>
Odin this
<Kaik541>
NO
<Kaik541>
fucking listen to me
<Kaik541>
please jesus christ
<Kaik541>
saying it fifty million times is not explaining WHY it needs to be that way
<Entropy512>
seriously, is it THAT hard to say "put these zips on your SD card BEFORE YOU START?"
<Kaik541>
yes because that's not how the fucking wiki is laid out
<Kaik541>
if someone takes their galaxy note which is sitting with stock gingerbread, they connect it to KIES and upgrade to samsung's ICS, and then immediately afterward flash a safe ICS kernel
<Kaik541>
where is the harm?
<Entropy512>
well not my problem if the wiki was laid out before we found out that Samsung epicfailed and released a pile of defective kernels
<Entropy512>
and defective eMMC chips
<Entropy512>
that's what I just said
<Kaik541>
that's a hardware fault and people should take that hardware back to samsung then
<Entropy512>
put the zips on your SD card
<Kaik541>
no, you're giving me an alternate set of instructions, you haven't once told me WHEN THE DAMAGE HAPPENS
<Kaik541>
and CM can't account for hardware defects that samsung ships out, just like the Captivate never accounted for the few ones that couldn't run i9000 modems
<Entropy512>
anywhere the stupid user doesn't EXACTLY follow your instructions
<Kaik541>
Entropy512: if the stupid user doesn't follow our exact instructions, then that's a failing on their part
<Kaik541>
which is why the guide is written the way it is
<Entropy512>
and you have "method via ROM Manager"
<Entropy512>
pretty much guaranteed to fail
<Entropy512>
I've never seen ROM Manager work properly
<Kaik541>
Entropy512: note the disclaimer right above that
<Kaik541>
NOTE: In order to flash CyanogenMod via ROM Manager, root access is required. Attaining root access is outside the scope of this wiki page
<Entropy512>
on any device I've ever owned
<Entropy512>
even with root
<Entropy512>
ROM Manager = fail
<Kaik541>
and again, since we don't provide/encourage root access, if they attempt it they aren't following our instructions
<Kaik541>
which isn't our fault
<Entropy512>
then why the fuck is the phrase "ROM Manger" anywhere on your page?
<Entropy512>
ROM Manager...
<Entropy512>
ROM Manager needs root
<Kaik541>
Entropy512: because that's the template
<Kaik541>
and there's also a reason why the "via Recovery" method is listed first
<Entropy512>
well if ROM Manager appears anywhere on the "template" the template is shit and needs to be thrown away
<Entropy512>
fuck the template
<Entropy512>
if the template has all this janky irrelevant/just plain broken shit
<Kaik541>
Entropy512: go talk to gu1dry in #cm-priv then
<Entropy512>
the template sucks
<Kaik541>
I've been trying to convince him to get rid of that part of the template for a long time now
<Kaik541>
but he won't
<Kaik541>
and he's the "wiki lead"
<Kaik541>
trust me, I'm with you on this, but he won't listen to me about this
<Kaik541>
there are several other devices where the ROM Manager instructions are beyond useless (and even a couple cases where they are potentially dangerous to the device) and yet we keep them and it's not because I want to
<Entropy512>
i'm curious
<Kaik541>
so yeah if you can convince gu1dry to get rid of them on (most) samsung devices, I'd be all for it
<Entropy512>
is there ANY device where ROM Manager isn't epicfail?
<Entropy512>
it's epic fail on any Galaxy S II device
<Kaik541>
Entropy512: works fine on SGS1 and SGS2 and galaxy nexus and almost anything htc
<Entropy512>
Galaxy Note
<Kaik541>
always worked fine for me on i777
<Entropy512>
always worked fine on I777?
<Entropy512>
fuck no
<Entropy512>
it's ALWAYS been epic fail on I777
<Entropy512>
it's never fucking worked properly
<Kaik541>
you just have to hit menu->manual flash override->ok->samsung galaxy s 2 (AT&)
<Entropy512>
never worked on note
<Kaik541>
and I think then clockworkmod 3.x+
<Kaik541>
it worked when I had the device and CM7 without issue
<Kaik541>
maybe something's broken since then
<Entropy512>
and then - boom "y my device give signature failure shit"
<Kaik541>
that's how I always did nightly updates whenever I built
<Kaik541>
never had an issue
<Entropy512>
ROM Manager = can't actually flash anything with its broke-ass piece of shit recovery
<Entropy512>
unless you are ALREADY on CM7/9
<Kaik541>
Entropy512: yep I agree with that statement
<Kaik541>
Entropy512: ROM Manager is on the way out for CM9
<Kaik541>
replacing it with an internal ROM updater
<Kaik541>
and that's pretty much the reason why, it can't be trusted to actually work on every device
<Entropy512>
so everyone agrees that ROM Manager is a steaming pile of shit
<Kaik541>
I'm not disagreeing and saying "z0mg ROM MANAGER IS AMAZING" I'm saying it works if you set it up, but it's a fucking bitch
<Entropy512>
so why is some dumbass insisting that the template retains references to it?
<Entropy512>
BECAUSE TEMPLATE?
<Kaik541>
because it "works once you're already on CM"
<Kaik541>
like I said, please try and convince him, if I can get enough dev's to actually say something aboutit maybe he'll change his mind
<Entropy512>
thats fucking retarded logic if your template is how to install CM
<Kaik541>
right now, bumble-bee, rayman, and xplodwild are in agreement with us
<Kaik541>
oh I know, I'm even going to be renaming all the "Update guides" to "Installation guides" because update is misleading there
<Kaik541>
since this guide is supposed to only pertain to initial installation
<Kaik541>
in my opinion, the only reason ROM Manager instructions are still around is because koush is a part of CM
<Entropy512>
"koush is a part of CM" - I haven't seen him do a gerrit review in over a month
<Kaik541>
Entropy512: do you have access to #cm-priv?
<Entropy512>
if you're "part of CM" you'd better be reviewing shit on gerrit
<Kaik541>
if not, you should
<Entropy512>
never heard of it before
<Kaik541>
it's the "work" channel for all of CM
<Entropy512>
holy fuck
<Entropy512>
12:37
<Entropy512>
i'm exhausted
<Kaik541>
Entropy512: I asked jeagoss to invite you in
<Kaik541>
I'll see if he says anything
<Entropy512>
i'll be around tomorrow
<Entropy512>
going afk until then
<Kaik541>
then you can yell at gu1dry all you want
<Kaik541>
Entropy512: apparently you have access
<Kaik541>
Entropy512: do a /msg ChanServ invite #cyanogenmod-priv and you should be able to join
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<stickyboy>
Getting audio runs on maguro nightlies... hmmm.
<stickyboy>
Totally messing with my groove, dawg.
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