Werner changed the topic of #armbian to: armbian - Linux for ARM development boards | www.armbian.com | Github: github.com/armbian | Commits: #armbian-commits | Forums Feed: #armbian-rss | Type 'help' for help | Logs: -> irc.armbian.com
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<xecuter> huhu
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<IgorPec> good morning
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<Busbusbus> Hey guys, I'm a Windows babby with a NAS on the way. If anyone would like to be subjected to a gauntlet of questions hit me up.
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<nekomancer[m]> Busbusbus: just ask your questions and pray.
<Busbusbus> Alright.
<Busbusbus> I have a Helios64 on the way and I'm mostly trying to sort out my plans for what to do with its five bays, working around ZFS as I eventually upgrade/replace drives in the future. I'm also not at all familiar with the OS or the software stacks to do what I'm wanting out of it, which is one larger pool for a media server to serve friends and family
<Busbusbus> abroad, and a smaller pool for home/work stuff that I can access anywhere.
<Busbusbus> The slightly iffy part on the hardware side is future expansion. In the future, if I catch humongous enterprise drives on sale again could I back up the 3x3TB RAIDZ1, replace those three with larger 16TB+ drives, copy the data from my two mirrored drives to the new large RAIDZ1, and just toss in the backed-up data onto the mirror? They'd basically
<Busbusbus> be swapping places in a manner that lets them both grow substantially without changing the zpool topology.
<Busbusbus> Does that make sense, or would it be unrealistic to try to swap around the purposes of those pools and re-hook the plex/jellyfin/whatever setup to the new drives? The file structure *should* be untouched other than a drive letter change, right? I don't even know what questions to ask regarding network access.
<Busbusbus> I'm really just trying to make the most of the very limited amount of bays in ZFS with plans for the future, and it'd be reassuring to know that I could juggle things around like that in Armbian. If so, where's a good place to get started on setting things up for these purposes?
<Busbusbus> Oh hell, one of my earlier messages didn't send. For context, I have a heap of 3TBs on-hand and a pair of 16TBs on the way. Trying to mix those drive sizes in a small number of bays is why I thought up the 3+2 setup and I've convinced myself it'll work as long as I can keep that structure in place and upgrade around it when I eventually replace the
<Busbusbus> 3TB drives.
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<lefreut> hey guys i have two odroid C2 board where the network don't work using the latest armbian. the net goes up during boot then goes down forever. it does work using the hardkernel official images, anyone had that?
<lefreut> the image does work on the third board i have
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<HerculeP> my odroidc2 eth (wifi dongle too) works well using 20.08/5.7
<HerculeP> well, I didnt check long term wise tho
<HerculeP> k, uptime 6d, eth still working (apt update etc) k 5.7.15 btw
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<HerculeP> (bionic desktop)
<HerculeP> got my IP from my router - hmm, impatient ppl, left already
<HerculeP> map
<HerculeP> oops
<thebigfrog> I can give you my 2 cents: if you're already thinking of changing your drive setup down the road don't to with zfs, it's too rigid. Btrfs may be a better choice https://markmcb.com/2020/01/07/five-years-of-btrfs/
<thebigfrog> Disclaimer - I use neither btrfs or zfs, just two drives and snapraid
<thebigfrog> Busbusbus: don't know if this the best place to ask. Check out reddit.com/r/selfhosted and r/homelab
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<Busbus> Will check those out, thanks. I've heard nothing good about btrfs was going to try to operate within the limitations of ZFS if I could. As long as that idea works it should be fine. I'll try pitching it over there and see what people think.
<Busbus> If I really need to I could still tear everything down and start with fresh pools to load up from my offsite backups. I'd be losing a layer of redundancy if I had to, though.
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<Werner> Guess I have to restart the Gitbot again. Does not want to paste anymore...
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<IgorPec> Busbus: with home disks you are planing to start?
<IgorPec> s/home/how many
<ArmbianHelper> IgorPec meant to say: Busbus: with how many disks you are planing to start?
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<nekomancer[m]> Werner: trunk — replacement of a bad word "master"?
<IgorPec> that's common used word i would say
<Werner> In point of view of political correcteness "master" is probably the bigger issue.
<IgorPec> ahaa, right :)
<Werner> As for me I won't change anything, simply wait for Github to make their point and rename master to whatever and then follow up.
<IgorPec> trunk is used in development since a long time ... not sure since when but long
<HerculeP> if there is a master but no slave it should be ok IMHO
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<Werner> Aight the Github plugin does not like to be daemonized and prefers running in a screen session... -.-'
<IgorPec> which gh plugins?
<Werner> github bot
<IgorPec> for irc?
<Werner> yes
<IgorPec> aha, well, possible
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<lanefu> the general trend is to goto main instead of master for branches.. trunk comes from like SVN and earlier stuff i guess.. i never really used CVS
<Werner> yeah trunk was kind a svn thingy
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<emOne> How can I send private messages on the forum?
<Werner> Check the letter icon on the top right corner right beside your avatar if you have set one.
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<Werner> Check the letter icon on the top right corner right beside your avatar if you have set one.
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<emOne> Werner it says I can send 0 messages a day
<Werner> Then you might be still in validating state
<emOne> How long does that take?
<Werner> Depends. Every first post of a member needs manually approved due to spam issues.
<Werner> Once that is achieved either receive a "like" for the post, wait seven days or get a subscription. Either one of these will remove validation status.
<emOne> I guess I will have to post something very impressive
<emOne> Perhaps the answer to life, the universe and everything else
<emOne> The answer is 42
<Werner> Or simply tell me your name in forums and promise not to write spam via dm :P
<emOne> My username is Bozza in the forum
<Werner> Should be fine now
<emOne> Oh wow. You're a legend Werner. Thank you!
<Werner> Nah, actually not. Just bored lots of times.
<nekomancer[m]> Die Legend Werner!
<emOne> I promise I will not spam though DM. I am just looking to write to two users who perhaps have solved the uboot issue on the same box as me
<Werner> But I don't want to die :(
<emOne> Haha neko
<emOne> :o
<emOne> Don't die Werner. Live forever instead. It's much better
<Werner> That means infinite boredom. Not that much pleasant :P
<emOne> Hehe
<emOne> OK I am going to try to boot armbian
<emOne> I think I have figured out the best way. Brb
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* nekomancer[m] means "die" in deutch, not english
<Werner> Well...that makes indeed kind a difference
<Werner> IgorPec, is there a reason why trunk has not been switched to 20.11 by now?
<emOne> It is funny how u-boot is not very universal. I have tried booting armbian by transplanting the uboot from a previous image. I now get a green screen. Still this is progress since at least something is happening
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<HerculeP> nekomancer[m]: "Die Legende" then (note the trailing "e")
<IgorPec> werner: lets wait with this until end of the week
<Werner> okay
<IgorPec> emOne: still with TVBOX? :)
<emOne> Yes IgorPec
<nekomancer[m]> HerculeP: thank you :)
<IgorPec> we have many troubles with single board computers, while tvboxes are way bigger wilderness
<buZz> IgorPec: i dont think adding more boards make them specifically easier ;)
<IgorPec> buzz: what you mean by that?
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<emOne> IgorPec it is a s905x3 based TV box so it isn't officially supported
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<buZz> IgorPec: you said 'many troubles with single board computers' ;)
<buZz> i dont think the trouble is because of the -amount- of boards
<IgorPec> yeah, true
<IgorPec> ofc not
<emOne> I think it probably isn't all THAT bad. It is a lot of trial and error. It would be a lot better if people were reporting there results of their trial and error
<emOne> Their
<buZz> does armbian target any exynos5 boards?
<IgorPec> emOne: situation with tvboxes is specifics
<emOne> Because of the different dtb configurations?
<IgorPec> arm boards are designed for different purposes. tvboxes are designed for one purpose and made as cheap as possible
<IgorPec> you have absolutely no documentation
<emOne> True
<IgorPec> every diff is reverese enginering
<IgorPec> and there are too many different variants. there is no general managing
<IgorPec> like we are doing with sbc
<emOne> My first sbc was a raspberry pi 1
<IgorPec> buzz: exynos5 is where?
<IgorPec> emOne: which is also without any docs
<emOne> Even on those boards the drivers were sometimes not working to the best of their abilities, even though the team was superb. It was an issue with arm licensing out fully capable open source drivers
<emOne> IgorPec. X86 motherboards also don't have documentation
<nekomancer[m]> RiscV will save us
<IgorPec> we will save ourselvs :)
<emOne> I have my doubts neko
<IgorPec> emOne: in this segment, you don't need to use Rpi
<emOne> I actually really liked raspbian
<buZz> IgorPec: i got a samsung chromebook 2 here :) XE503C32 iirc
<buZz> i -think- its on some odroid boards aswell
<emOne> It is kind of crazy how arm is so complicated when it comes to drivers
<IgorPec> buzz: its different design than XU4
<buZz> yeah kinda
<IgorPec> i once thought to buy it
<IgorPec> to port armbian on it...
<buZz> hmhmh, i'm running archlinuxarm on it now
<buZz> with mainline 5.8.0 kernel
<IgorPec> yeah, i know they provide image
<buZz> doesnt really need much to port
<IgorPec> i know
<buZz> ok :)
<IgorPec> not now
<buZz> i scored this one for free, traded it for a pi3
<IgorPec> i trade it for pi3 back if you like :) haha
<emOne> :D
<buZz> :D
<buZz> IgorPec: imho, just put some ebay alerts, google stopped supporting them now so soon a flood of 'my chromium isnt new enough!' chromebooks will come ;)
<buZz> 4GB ram, 8core cpu, >8 hrs batterylife, they're quite nice
<IgorPec> well, i have so much hw laying around that ...
<buZz> haha ok
<emOne> What do you all think about apple making arm macbook pros?
<buZz> emOne: nice, in 10 years i might pick one up from eWaste
<emOne> There is already a developer mac computer with an arm cpu
<buZz> current gen i wouldnt touch unpaid
<buZz> :D
<IgorPec> i have 4 years old xps 13 and i don't need anything better
<emOne> The development computer is 500usd
<emOne> Probably the cheapest mac on earth heh
<IgorPec> 500 usd for what?
<emOne> For the whole computer
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<IgorPec> for mac its more like 5000 .
<IgorPec> you mean old mac?=
<emOne> It is a mac mini with an arm cpu
<nekomancer[m]> 250$ only keyboard
<emOne> No new
<emOne> Neko the wheels are only 1000usd
<emOne> The arm development PC is a mac mini with the arm cpu from the latest ipad
<buZz> apple is sticking to cpus shorter and shorter each cycle
<buZz> wonder what they'll move to after arm
<buZz> riscV?
<emOne> Is that good?
<buZz> doesnt really matter, apple consumers will buy anything
<buZz> 'no escape button?? OH PLZ TAKE MY MONEY'
<emOne> MIPS?
<emOne> Lol buzz
<emOne> The new macbook pro - there is now way to escape!!! TM
<buZz> they dont take rational choices
<emOne> no way*
<emOne> They're actually great machines
<nekomancer[m]> it's a past.
<emOne> Lol
<nekomancer[m]> magic is over
<buZz> 'ok show me a kernel compilation' 'A WHAT?'
<emOne> I thought you would like the OS, since it is so closely related to bsd/Unix
<buZz> emOne: rofl, no
<buZz> thats like saying windows is awesome because its 99% POSIX compliant
<buZz> they both are oppressive ecosystems, intent on keeping their users dumb
<buZz> apple's OS 10 is just 'close to BSD' because that prevented them to make a OS
<buZz> which saves money they could have spent on removing functionkeys
<emOne> Is Windows posix compliant?
<buZz> kinda, yes
<emOne> Are you talking about that Ubuntu for Windows thing that they now optionally have?
<buZz> no
<buZz> windows -itself- is
<emOne> :o
<emOne> Nooooo
<emOne> Get out of here
<buZz> because , like apple, microsoft ALSO didnt want to spend money to learn to write a OS
<emOne> What?!??!?
<emOne> You are kidding!?
<emOne> Elaborate please
<buZz> so we're all here, on remnants of the 1960 mainframes
<buZz> being POSIX compliant is about how accounts work, what methods you have for threading, etc
<emOne> Buzz is here to blow all of our brains
<buZz> The POSIX specifications describe an operating system that is similar to, but not necessarily the same as, Unix. Though POSIX is heavily based on the BSD and System V releases, non-Unix systems such as Microsoft's Windows NT and IBM's OpenEdition MVS are POSIX compliant.
<buZz> NT being the same kernel that microsoft has been developing on since the 90s
<emOne> But Windows isn't similar to bsd, Unix or any derivative
<buZz> which is still the kernel running 'windows 10' even though they removed NT from the name
<buZz> POSIX doesnt have to mean 'unix'
<buZz> 1993 :)
<emOne> Are you saying that if I bend my code enough, or squint, windows will be able to speak linux?
<buZz> depends on what you mean by 'speak linux'
<buZz> if you ment 'can i compile portable enough code straight on windows' then yes
<buZz> -provided- you have a compiler etc
<buZz> ah see
<buZz> The NT POSIX subsystem was included with the first versions of Windows NT because of 1980s US federal government requirements listed in Federal Information Processing Standard (FIPS) 151-2.[1] Briefly, these documents required that certain types of government purchases be POSIX-compliant, so that if Windows NT had not included this subsystem, computing systems based on it would not have been eligible for
<buZz> some government contracts. Windows NT versions 3.5, 3.51 and 4.0 were certified as compliant with FIPS 151-2.
<emOne> Incredible
<buZz> my only 'windows training' was for NT 3.51
<buZz> fully certified MCSE at the time
<emOne> It sounds like a huge backdoor
<buZz> rofl
<buZz> yeah windows is a pretty big backdoor
<emOne> ironic that they call themselves windows and not doors huh?
<buZz> :)
<buZz> doors are made to block
<buZz> windows allow you in
<emOne> I am making a new OS
<emOne> It will be called doors
<emOne> It even has a catchphrase
<emOne> Doors - when some doors close others open TM
<emOne> :)
<emOne> ... It is a joke ;)
<ArmbianHelper> . It is a joke ;) [en~>eng]
<buZz> :)
<buZz> emOne: back in the BBS days 'doorgames' were really popular
<emOne> What were those?
<emOne> I am googling it now
<emOne> I am surprised about the whole Unix subsystem in Windows
<emOne> And shocked
<emOne> What could you do with this subsystem?
<buZz> emOne: comply to gov standards for not being a shitty hobby OS
<buZz> while still being so
<buZz> \o/
<buZz> one of the things i liked was native support for NFS in NT
<emOne> The NT Kernel was better than dos/win32
<emOne> Buzz was that through the Unix subsystem?
<buZz> i'm not completely sure
<buZz> win32 was mostly just dosshell.exe turned into a windowing system
<buZz> its been over 20 years since i voluntary installed a windows computer
<emOne> Win32 is like a bad joke
<emOne> Hmm the posix subsystem man,,,, that is a huge security risk
<emOne> Especially when people are not really aware of it existing
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<buZz> emOne: people arent aware of 99% of the tech they use
<buZz> and the security risks it entails
<buZz> maybe 99.9999%
<emOne> You don't happen to know a thing or two about smart cards do you?
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<emOne> Perhaps that was another buzz who I spoke with
<emOne> About that specific topic
<emOne> Not in this channel though
<emOne> buzz, personally I don't think it is the user who is responsible for knowing the security risks inside their tech
<buZz> i've played with those java devices a bit yeah
<buZz> emOne: imho it always is
<emOne> The user pays money for his tech
<buZz> if a user wants to use tech A , he needs to get a license to show them being aware
<buZz> if you pay for a hooker, you are responsible for the STDs
<nekomancer[m]> Google Buzz
<buZz> and you -should have known- that was a risk
<emOne> It is the responsibility of the device maker to make it secure because he receives money for it
<buZz> blaming 'but i paid money for it' on it , isnt a viable responsible action
<buZz> i dont know if -you- spent money at a fruitstore, a dumpter or some saudi ISIS fork that sells bombs
<emOne> Fork?
<emOne> Ohh. As in branch
<buZz> yeah ISIS was originally american obviously
<emOne> They were?
<buZz> why else use a american alphabet :D
<buZz> obviously, they suddenly existed right after george bush went to the middle east :D
<emOne> Let's not get into politics
<emOne> Let's talk about the fruitstore and dumpster
<emOne> What's your point?
<buZz> 'having paid money for $service' does not mean you dont have to be aware of the risks
<emOne> So you're saying if you're paying for a bad product you're responsible for the security risk?
<emOne> Ok
<buZz> like, any amusement park will take your money to ride a attraction in their park, that DOES NOT relieve you from reading the 'DO NOT USE WHEN PREGNANT' signs
<nekomancer[m]> <emOne "So you're saying if you're payin"> did you read any contemporary EULA or term of service at all?
<buZz> or, when you find out that storing that 2/3/4/5G always-on radio next to your testicles makes you impotent, you cant sue Samsung for that, because its literally right in the safety docs
<emOne> I am still reading neko
<emOne> Right now I am on page 277
<emOne> I was thinking about finishing the eula book later this year for one of the companies I registered with
<buZz> :)
<buZz> did you hear about that 1 eula , that had 'whoever reads this gets 1000 usd' in it
<nekomancer[m]> you pay money, but they guaraneed nothing. All your own risk.
<buZz> was unspotted for >5 years , iirc
<emOne> Do you guys believe the 5g conspiracy theories too?
<buZz> no
<buZz> i dont use any cell tech, i have a dumb nokia in storage at home
<emOne> You're just mad that the Chinese can do it better
<buZz> ppl that want to call me send me a email 1hr in advance 'go find your phone'
<buZz> ^ no joke
<emOne> Can I have your email lol?
<emOne> I am not going to prank call you
<buZz> sure, emone-wants-to-email-me@spacedout.nl
<emOne> Sent
<emOne> Obviously it isn't guaranteed
<emOne> But some companies have developed a reputation for good security
<emOne> Apple for example
<emOne> At least when it comes to iPhones
<nekomancer[m]> pff!
<emOne> They invested a lot into securing their devices
<nekomancer[m]> it's easy — just blame everybody who data isleaked
<buZz> lol apple security
<buZz> remember when they admitted to storing your 'encrypted' backups in their icloud -on the same systems as your key to decode them- ?
<buZz> of course you didnt
<buZz> but didnt fbi suddenly got really quiet about that decoding request? :D :D
<emOne> That is why you don't use cloud backup storage
<buZz> >99% of apple users trust apple
<buZz> because 22:09:06 < emOne> But some companies have developed a reputation for good security
<emOne> If the cloud storage is free,, it means it is free for a reason
<buZz> 'developing a reputation' is marketing, not actual dev
<buZz> you can use clown storage totally secure
<buZz> a) make your own keys , b) dont put them on clown storage
<buZz> done
<emOne> If your email provider is free it means it is free for a reason
<buZz> if the oxygen you breath is free, it means it is free for a reason
<emOne> I am actually a fish....
<buZz> who still breath oxygen
<buZz> a fish bad at biology , it seems ;)
<emOne> "breathe"
<buZz> some even go to the surface to do so
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<emOne> I respirate
<emOne> Breathing is for humans
<emOne> :)
<buZz> ;)
<emOne> So what is your point Bout free oxygen?
<emOne> Stop polluting my oceans with plastic because your oxygen is free lol
<buZz> capitalism isnt a holy grail
<nekomancer[m]> Ьщщт шыф рфкыр ьшыекуыы
<nekomancer[m]> Moon is the harrsh mistress
<emOne> Neko is speaking in tongues
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<emOne> Ahh hello neighbour the big frog
<buZz> linux with its zero gains has done more good to humanity in 10 years than the 100 years of proprietary dev that capitalism has done
<buZz> is linux the exception?
<buZz> or, are bad systems just always around to drag us down
<emOne> Neko are you just typing random cyrilic?
<buZz> lets close libraries because people could get free education there
<buZz> its free, so its bad
<buZz> is what amazon would want you to believe
<buZz> just BUY the books already
<emOne> I never claimed that you're the product with all free things
<nekomancer[m]> <emOne "Neko are you just typing random "> no. I just forgot to swich to EN from cyrillic
<emOne> But with free email and cloud storage you're definitely the product
<buZz> free email = apt install dovecot
<buZz> right?
<emOne> Free as in freedom
<emOne> Yes
<buZz> you paid for your dovecot binaries?
<emOne> By free email I mean Google mail, Microsoft mail or any other "free" email your major tech company in your country
<buZz> hahaha hotmales yes
<emOne> Gmail even OCR scans your png, jpg and picture attachments and secretly stores that info
<nekomancer[m]> before free email like hotmail, lycos, msn everybody use free email from internet provider
<emOne> I remember
<emOne> The problem with using your own email server is that if you have a blacklisted ip you end up in the spam folder
<buZz> better not get your ip blacklisted then :D
<emOne> Or if you don't know how to properly set up the email server
<buZz> knowledge is never free
<buZz> but -access- to it is
<emOne> Buzz well ipv4 has run out
<emOne> When you rent a server you will be using an ip from the previous person
<emOne> So you have to be lucky to get a good IP
<nekomancer[m]> blacklists are dead
<emOne> I see so many smal companies who send emails that go straight to the spam folder
<nekomancer[m]> unprofessional.
<emOne> Yes
<nekomancer[m]> or — just as planned, if it is junk mail
<buZz> emOne: no not 'lucky'
<buZz> you vote with your money
<buZz> i can buy DiscountVPS.ukraine , or i can buy from a ISP i know
<emOne> True
<emOne> You're not from Ukraine
<buZz> i am not
<emOne> I know
<emOne> If knowledge is not free
<emOne> But access to it is
<emOne> What.. Does that mean?
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<emOne> buZz?
<buZz> i could tell you , but i'd have to charge
<buZz> ;)
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<buZz> bitcoin payments to 1buZzujfaG1UPf6iNJjvLnWaKFXHp1EeZ
<buZz> :) one of my youtube wallets
<emOne> Nice
<emOne> What's your YouTube channel?
<nekomancer[m]> one of
<nekomancer[m]> buZz trendsetter
<buZz> emOne: askjeeves that address and find out ;)
<emOne> I already tried
<buZz> lol, weird hits
<buZz> youtube.com/buzztiaan < go nuts
<emOne> I bookmarked your YouTube
<buZz> :)
<emOne> So what will you exactly tell if I donate btc?
<emOne> Obviously you don't need to tell me the specifics
<buZz> hehe
<emOne> Because you charge for those
<buZz> i can give you a book
<buZz> i cant make you understand it
<emOne> What's the book about?
<emOne> Technology
<emOne> Geography
<emOne> Theology?
<emOne> History?
<emOne> Scientology lol?
<buZz> its the telephone dictionary
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<rneese> afternoon guys
<rneese> how goes the march
<rneese> I want to make a custom version of armbian using the deepin desltop
<rneese> is there a good howto on custom building
<emOne> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://docs.armbian.com/Developer-Guide_Build-Preparation/&ved=2ahUKEwjN4Y_GqcbrAhVF6aQKHQw6CZEQFjAAegQIBxAC&usg=AOvVaw0x0ET56ox3lUdwJdTAPrAm
<emOne> Eh Without that Google prefix
<emOne> buZz: what's the telephone dictionary?
<buZz> lol
<buZz> directory, sorry, not a native speaker :)
<emOne> You're like the Elon Musk of the irc servers
<emOne> I would have totally paid for a telephone dictionary lol
<emOne> I was intrigued
<emOne> Can this person speak telephone?
<emOne> Is he an alien?
<emOne> When buZz picks up a telephone he makes 56k modem sounds with his mouth
<emOne> Back on topic of armbian
<buZz> heh
<emOne> rneese that link should give you a good idea on how to build an image
<rneese> yeah but its not saying what file to edit for the desktop pkgs
<rneese> as I will have to edit and change the pkgs to not use the xfce desktop
<buZz> eh
<buZz> you'd have to make deepdesk packages too
<buZz> its not just 'disable xfce, enable deepdesk'
<rneese> they have arm64 deepin pkgs
<buZz> thats nice, were they built with the -specific- library versions used in armbian?
<rneese> what libs does armbian use that are specific to deesktop and x
<buZz> a lot
<buZz> at least 100 different libraries are between 'booting a kernel' and 'starting a X program'
<emOne> Could he use something like deeproot?
<emOne> Not buildroot per se
<emOne> But an automation tool like it
<buZz> he could use tools, sure
<buZz> but NOT without knowing how to work them ;)
<emOne> I made a buildroot image for a rpi before
<emOne> The documentation is pretty straight forward
<emOne> But it is perhaps not what he needs
<rneese> well I will have to figure out
<rneese> I would like to see armbian have more desktop selections then just xfce
<buZz> you could also do the work for armbian
<buZz> you do know armbian -has- more desktop selections?
<buZz> just because something is preinstalled doesnt mean you have to use it
<buZz> there's 100s of other choices you could make
<rneese> ok what other desktops as by default it comes with xfce
<buZz> i know fluxbox is in there
<buZz> thats all i need
<buZz> probably 99% of what debian provides is in there
<rneese> so if debian has Thumper68#
<rneese> sorry
<buZz> yeah armbian mostly is just 1:1 debian
<buZz> nice password :D
<rneese> lol
<rneese> no I was talking in 2 windows
<buZz> sure ;)
<rneese> on discord also
<rneese> lol
<IgorPec> rneses: welcome to join our efforts https://armbian.atlassian.net/browse/AR-200
<ArmbianHelper> AR-200 [Story] "Improving Desktop images" reported by Igor Pecovnik at 2020-04-04. Status: To Do
<IgorPec> rneese:
<IgorPec> we want to add some modern type of desktop and leave current as is
<rneese> ok
<IgorPec> we are mainly low level / CLI people and not very familiar with desktops which is why situation is as is
<rneese> so as it is desktop pkgs have to be rebuilt for armbian
<rneese> ?
<IgorPec> well, we will probably need to build and host some special packages
<emOne> Can't you just install the desktop using apt?
<IgorPec> and desktop "should look nice"
<IgorPec> yes yes
<IgorPec> apt way, packagaded
<rneese> I just installed and got it
<IgorPec> but package need to be prepared in tha backstage. that's what we need
<rneese> so there is a easy way
<rneese> is what I just followed
<IgorPec> easy way is once its done ;) before ... its complicated. vanilla solutions are not working very well
<emOne> you said you wanted to build the desktop
<buZz> right, so it already works and didnt even require to build a new image
<emOne> Which is something different
<buZz> gee, who knew
<buZz> :D
<rneese> but lightdm would not let me login to it I had to use lxdm
<buZz> i use slim
<IgorPec> we need somethin more resiliant ... not an afternoon packaging
<emOne> How did you install it?
<buZz> ppl always tell me its a bad choice
<emOne> With apt?
<rneese> no I said I wanted to build a img with deepin as the desktop
<rneese> apt
<buZz> rneese: but that was before you knew you already could install it
<IgorPec> with wayland instead of x
<rneese> but I had to install lxdm to get the option to select the desktop
<buZz> deeping requires wayland?
<IgorPec> IDK
<buZz> rneese: or learn xinitrc config ;)
<rneese> no it runs on x also
<rneese> ok
<emOne> Ubuntuhandbook.org should really use ssl
<buZz> lol nah
<buZz> emOne: ubuntuhandbook is building on people trusting ubuntu on just reputation!
<IgorPec> no ssl is pretty lame, yeah
<buZz> :D
<rneese> ok well I have grabbed the build system and am reviewing it
<emOne> Ubuntu used to be very innovative
<emOne> About 10 years ago
<buZz> emOne: before they forked debian?
<IgorPec> anyway, if someone wants to influence the next generation desktop of armbian, now is the time to step up
<buZz> ubuntu is just debian with a $coloroftheseason theme
<IgorPec> yeap
<buZz> IgorPec: anything without icons is fine by me
<buZz> :D
<IgorPec> hehe
<buZz> icons make me feel like i'm using a MyFirstComputer
<IgorPec> you got XFCE where you can disable icons and stil use it ;)
<IgorPec> lower than this ... you have CLI
<emOne> Ubuntu is just Debian with am ugly theme + they keep breaking packages
<IgorPec> they are inovative with snap :)
<IgorPec> "inovative"
<emOne> Is snap good?
<emOne> Lol ok
<rneese> now I have to recall haow to rm all the xfce
<IgorPec> apt purge snapd is my 1st command if install ubuntu
<buZz> IgorPec: fluxbox is where it's at
<rneese> I have not played with fluxbox
<buZz> last stable release 5 yrs ago
<buZz> nothing updated, cause it just works
<IgorPec> xfce is also good enough if you ask me
<buZz> 20MB memory in use
<buZz> xfce is too bloated
<IgorPec> cmon
<buZz> easy x10 more memory wasted
<buZz> for something to display xterms?? comeon :D
<IgorPec> but memomry is not a problem here
<buZz> yes it is
<buZz> SBC have -very limited- and -unupgradeable- memory
<buZz> each byte matters
<IgorPec> and then people wants to run chromium, haha
<buZz> :D
<IgorPec> and all the diff is gone
<IgorPec> i know we can find more lightweight DE but why?
<IgorPec> XFCE still looks resanoble ok and its not gnome bulky
<emOne> I use the lynx browser
<buZz> xdm?
<IgorPec> btw. i use cinamon for my daily work
<buZz> IgorPec: i'm fine with whatever you guys want to maintain ;) none of my armbian usecases even have a monitor :D
<rneese> I was looking at deepin because I know alot of users looking to move off mac os as of late and wat a desktop with the mac look
<rneese> but with more options
<IgorPec> buzz: xfce requires no maintanace
<rneese> and deepin looks bery nice
<buZz> IgorPec: fluxbox went 5 yrs without needing a release
<buZz> how's that for low maintainance
<buZz> xfce released new version just 7 months ago
<IgorPec> yeah, but we did't need to do anything
<buZz> right, debian packaged it
<buZz> they also have fluxbox :)
<IgorPec> not exactly
<IgorPec> debians package is not very polished
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<emOne> rneese: so how did you install it? A single apt install command?
<IgorPec> we still apply many fixes and that kind of work - more of it - we plan to implement on next one
<IgorPec> perhaps KDE plasma?
<IgorPec> there is a need for serious desktop for hw that can afford to run it. simple as that
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<buZz> IgorPec: oh great, to help underline the lacking gpu drivers?
<IgorPec> both
<emOne> KDE is developing a plasma UI for a TV centric os
<emOne> At least they claim they're doing it
<buZz> its great that arm is finally getting more and more gpu drivers available that arent utter shite
<emOne> Is armbian going to include panfrost?
<IgorPec> yeah, now we are almost and XFCE is not following this
<emOne> Will panfrost be in armbian by default?
<IgorPec> we include all 3d functions for more 1-2years
<IgorPec> but its disabled by default since its unstable
<emOne> How do you enable panfrost?
<emOne> Isn't panfrost in mesa?
<IgorPec> enable acceleration on X. that's all
<rneese> is all I did and added lxdm as the manager
<emOne> rneese I was hoping you would use words
<emOne> I don't like clicking on non ssl links
<IgorPec> you can run gnome3 OOB on lets say Opi PC2
<rneese> you have to enable the ppe repo
<emOne> Oh ok
<rneese> add-apt-repository ppa:ubuntudde-dev/stable
<rneese> apt update
<rneese> apt install ubuntudde-dde
<rneese> apt install lxdm
<emOne> rneese:when you say that you want to build an image it usually means that you want to compile the OS from scratch
<rneese> then set lxdm as the default login mamanger
<emOne> So when you said you want to "build" it the people here thought you were setting aside a whole day for this project
<emOne> Because that is how long it takes to "build" an OS
<nekomancer[m]> <buZz "ubuntu is just debian with a $co"> and PPA. and freshest packages.
<rneese> I want to make it so
<rneese> ok
<rneese> well I am looking at the build script and where it sets the desktop pkgs to install
<IgorPec> armbian idea of another desktop is to expand this https://github.com/armbian/build/blob/master/lib/desktop.sh
<emOne> Next time use the word "install"
<buZz> nekomancer[m]: 'slightly fresher' sure
<buZz> nekomancer[m]: Debian Unstable as a Service!
<buZz> :D
<rneese> I want o make it so I can have a img that can go on a sd for install on hardware
<IgorPec> whihc resoults in "apt install armbian-desktop-focal"
<nekomancer[m]> <IgorPec "and then people wants to run chr"> people wants to use internet. internet in 2020 build for chrome only.
<rneese> like we have 45 friendly elec T4 boards
<emOne> rneese well in that case you might have to build it ;)
<rneese> setup as desktops
<IgorPec> buzz: ubuntu LTS is actually good. one year after ;)
<buZz> :) yes
<buZz> debian wheezy also still works
<IgorPec> T4 is good enough for desktop
<emOne> Rneese you could also repackage the existing image
<IgorPec> NicoD is using M4 (little brother) as a daily driver
<rneese> ?
<emOne> Google "repackage linux image"
<IgorPec> yeah, but repacking is ... eh
<IgorPec> vs build from sources
<rneese> I think making it part of the armbian-config to select what desktop you want to use would be a good idea also
<IgorPec> "sources"
<emOne> IgorPec he didn't know the difference between installing and building
<IgorPec> rneese: ofc. that's a step 2. Or step 1 and then making its way to the package. either way is good to get going
<emOne> I think it will be good enough if he repackages
<IgorPec> yeah
<rneese> building with the armbian script I have not done on 4 years
<emOne> But ofc it is better to build from source
<emOne> A million times better
<IgorPec> we actually do that with the desktop. we don't build it. except some special packages
<IgorPec> rneese: we will support that part. besides, this is suppose to be a team work
<IgorPec> after we agree POC can be done in any way ... later this is build into the script.
<rneese> ok well adding it to the armbian-config ould be easy
<IgorPec> anyhow is good for start.
<rneese> well igore poit the way you want to go first I have worked with the armbian-config before
<rneese> and would be able to work on the script to add the options
<IgorPec> OK
<IgorPec> we will find help on that part
<rneese> ok
<rneese> but I have it now working on the install as is
<rneese> and am playing with it
<IgorPec> for now, we only got to the point that we want a better desktop and we elected desktop CEO (myy) who is reponsible for relaisartion :)
<rneese> now there are a few outside apps I have to talk to also
<buZz> rofl
* buZz vomits in a bucket
<IgorPec> lol
<buZz> maybe they can go do a kickstarter
<IgorPec> nah
<buZz> and user voting on what smiley avatars to place for the icons
<IgorPec> no, no its just that someone has to be in charge of the project
<IgorPec> if everything is on me, it gets chaotic, already is to much sometimes
<buZz> maybe time wasted shouldnt go to decorative modes? :D
<IgorPec> time is wasted in bulk on many stupid things ;)
<rneese> understand
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<emOne> But it looks like it
<buZz> :D
<buZz> maybe start watching it crosseyed
<emOne> Maybe it added a feature to my monitor?
<emOne> Where can I switch resolution?
<nekomancer[m]> just use 3d lcd glasses
<buZz> xrandr --auto
<emOne> LOL
<buZz> xrandr --output HDMI1 --mode 640x480
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<emOne> Hdmi1 not found
<emOne> Where in the menu do I do it?
<emOne> I can't look at this much longer
<emOne> Settings appearance?
<emOne> Settings display OK
<emOne> Composite 1????
<emOne> It is using composite 1???!!!!!
<buZz> emOne: xrandr <enter> tells you the outputs
<buZz> then xrandr --output <THERIGHTNAME> --mode 640x480
<emOne> Pioneer electronic corporation?
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<emOne> OK 720p works
<emOne> Why does 1080p not work?
<buZz> no idea, why doesnt it?
<emOne> 1080p@24hz works
<emOne> But not at 30hz
<emOne> Now the image is fine
<emOne> 1080p@50hz works fine too
<rneese> hmm some apps work some dont
<emOne> OK so why does armbian not autodetect the monitor properly?
<emOne> Even 1080p@60hz works fine
<emOne> But not 30hz
<emOne> Why does it use 30hz by default if it doesn't work?
<emOne> Hmm at 1080p the top bar is cut from the monitor
<emOne> Like overscan
<emOne> But at 720p it is fine
<emOne> Actually even in 720p it is also cut
<rneese> snaps have issues
<rneese> I installed gitkracken
<rneese> and get errors
<emOne> Where is the any key?
<emOne> It says I need to press the any key
<rneese> just press a key
<buZz> lol
<emOne> Sweet
<emOne> It works
<emOne> There are some problems with it, but it works
<emOne> The sound doesn't work yet
<emOne> But I saw a fix for it
<emOne> And also for whatever reason the wrong HDMI output mode is selected
<emOne> I don't know why the edges are slightly cut
<emOne> But I think TV monitors work slightly differently than computer screens
<emOne> So I need to test that
<emOne> And apart from that the WiFi driver needs to be built from source
<buZz> monitors (and most TVs) use some i2c variant to tell connected devices their resolutions
<buZz> but many TVs specifically just send wrong information
<emOne> Interesting
<emOne> Oh lol
<emOne> Is it possible to see this i2c information?
<emOne> buZz some people have tried to fuzz HDMI
<emOne> And hack the protocol
<emOne> I restarted
<emOne> And it is freaking out
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<buZz> yes you can just dump it somewhere, i think xrandr can do that
<emOne> It is giving me a million lines with "force rewrite yes? "
<emOne> Wow, the boot process is freaking out big time
<emOne> I can't quite see what it is writing because it is in that wrong HDMI mode
<emOne> Should be 1. Fix? Yes
<emOne> A million lines of that too
<emOne> I am literally getting the matrix output now
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<emOne> Maybe I should reflash that as card
<emOne> And I was convinced I had the wrong uboot or the wrong dtb
<emOne> Sound still doesn't work
<emOne> But that is a driver issue
<emOne> I spent a whole day trying different uboot versions
<emOne> I even hypothesised that it was the display mode that was wrong
<emOne> Why didn't I try switching it first
<emOne> I even found an old and broken logitech mouse that wouldn't pair with the receiver and fixed the mouse just to use it with armbian
<emOne> Good night everyone
<buZz> ciao bella
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<rneese> Unpacking ubuntudde-dde (1.1) over (1.1) ...
<rneese> Setting up ubuntudde-dde (1.1) ...
<rneese> E: Write error - ~LZMAFILE (28: No space left on device)
<rneese> but I have space
<rneese> its a 128 gig nvme ssd
<rneese> reboot fixed it
<rneese> Thumper69#
<rneese> wrong windows
<buZz> :) i'd really change that password
<rneese> I did
<buZz> also dictionaryword+numbers+1capitalizednumber is not a good password
<rneese> trying to fix my launcher now
<rneese> why am I getting lzma errors now
<buZz> maybe its extracting to /tmp ?
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<rneese> qt.qpa.xcb: could not connect to display
<rneese> terminate called after throwing an instance of 'std::bad_alloc'
<rneese> QStandardPaths: wrong ownership on runtime directory /run/user/0, 0 instead of 1000
<rneese> what(): std::bad_alloc
<rneese> Aborted
<rneese> so removing xfce broke the install
<rneese> just reinstalled it
<rneese> if I have to I can reload
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