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<DigitalMan1983_>
YES!!!!!!!!!
<khelair>
Hey DigitalMan1983_ you're not the same digitalman as rswind from synchronet BBS, are you?
<DigitalMan1983_>
the overlay worked....the solution was posted in the Pine64 forum
<DigitalMan1983_>
I am not, although I was once a sysop of a BBS :)
<khelair>
ah, yeah I thought it'd be kind of weird to see him here, but who knows, maybe he was working on his system on a single board now. heh.
<khelair>
I'm actually a sysop now, myself. :)
<DigitalMan1983_>
sweet, are you on telnet?
<khelair>
telnet/ssh. my system isn't open right now, but I could open up the ports for a bit if you wanted to take a peek, I haven't done a whole load of customization on this instance yet, though. Kind of just got bits of it restored from backup, it's nothing like it used to be in all of its splendor. heh
<khelair>
been having problems with attacks on my system right now, IDS has caught them but I don't like leaving those ports open too long any more
<DigitalMan1983_>
yeah, don't go nuts but if it's not a lot of trouble I'd love to have a look
<khelair>
hell I'm gonna open it up, I need to see how the IDS is doing with things now anyway. but yeah, there's really nothign in the local message bases or anything yet, but if you jump to the DOVE-Net group you'll find activity. :)
<khelair>
gimme a sec to open the ports here
<DigitalMan1983_>
ok cool!
<khelair>
okay it _should_ be working now... telnet://d-resources.hopto.org:8023 or ssh://d-resources.hopto.org:8022
<khelair>
let me know if you can't hit it
Guest60462 is now known as comrade
<khelair>
yeah I don't even have fidonet active again yet on here, it's kind of sad. I've had this instance resurrected for over a year now, I've just been so swamped that I haven't had time to do a whole hell of a lot with it since then. It was beautiful in its prior incarnation, when I was in portland, about 4 years ago here
<khelair>
that instance was actually on OpenBSD, too
<nekomancer[m]>
DigitalMan1983_: you are top!
<DigitalMan1983_>
not sure what that means but I'll take it as a compliment :)
<DigitalMan1983_>
SSH seems to work, what should I use for new user handle?\
<khelair>
anything you like. I wouldn't suggest DigitalMan, though. That's also the handle of the guy who wrote the whole Synchronet system (the software that I'm running on there). heh. Might be a little awkward. My name on there is 'Sprite'
<khelair>
You don't have to use your real name/creds if you don't want, either. Privacy is cool if that's what you like.
<lanefu>
I use that on my pocket chip to play LORD
<DigitalMan1983_>
cool board khelair!
* khelair
grins
<khelair>
Thank you, sir, I really appreciate it. :) Better things to come in the near future, I've just started development on a custom command shell for it and I'm going to be stocking the text file & download sections again pretty quick here.
<Tonymac32>
wait a minute, you mean Seth Able Robinson LORD?
<Tonymac32>
or another one
<DigitalMan1983_>
is there any other? :)
* lanefu
duh
<Tonymac32>
I didn't think so, but considering part of my childhood just got mentioned in a Linux IRC in 2020
<Tonymac32>
figured I better check
<lanefu>
Lol
<DigitalMan1983_>
hahaha fair point!
<Tonymac32>
alright where's that barmaid
<DigitalMan1983_>
I loved me some legend of the red dragon when I was a kid
<DigitalMan1983_>
Violet? you're just looking to get slapped, aren't you?
<lanefu>
Lol
<Tonymac32>
10 year old me was pretty smooth with Violet
<khelair>
I gotta get some doors set up, too. I hate wrangling with dosbox, though. My favorite was always TW2002
<Tonymac32>
XD
<khelair>
never played LORD, I take it I was missing a lot...
<lanefu>
Yeah lord is fun and easy
<DigitalMan1983_>
I never had much luck. everyone else was getting laid and I'd give her a wink and end up with beer poured over my head :P
* TRS-80
just finished cleaning PCV valve in the Mrs. car
<TRS-80>
Tonymac32: Now it's Miller Time
<Tonymac32>
cleaning? wow
<Tonymac32>
never cleaned one
<khelair>
oh it was _that_ kind of game. heh
<lanefu>
I tried picking up tw2002 again but it's not so recreational
<Tonymac32>
always just replaced the dumb things
* TRS-80
can't be arsed to go to the store
<Tonymac32>
lol
<TRS-80>
actually I was going to, but it seemed to work, so...
<Tonymac32>
so those Cruze's have a German engine in them
<khelair>
yeah it's definitely not the same any more. plus finding a game where everybody starts at the same time with the same resources in this day and age? pretty damn rare
<TRS-80>
I probably will tomorrow or something, but they close soon
<Tonymac32>
when the PCV fails you have to replace THE ENTIRE INTAKE MANIFOLD
<DigitalMan1983_>
I cleaned one once that wasn't dirty simply because it was on a laundry list of possible things causing my system to run too lean
* lanefu
still struggles with plastic intakes being a thing
<Tonymac32>
so does Chrysler
<Tonymac32>
:)
<DigitalMan1983_>
ugh, yeah on my car if I want to change the plugs I have to pull off the entire damn cold air intake
<Tonymac32>
I have a Ranger, and the SOHC engine, the rear passenger plug, you're going to bleed
<TRS-80>
this place is like a rowdy pup in the eveneingm it's great
<TRS-80>
s/pup/pub/
<ArmbianHelper>
TRS-80 meant to say: this place is like a rowdy pub in the eveneingm it's great
<DigitalMan1983_>
which has a 17 dollar gasket that has to be replaced every time
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<Tonymac32>
wow a bit pricey there
<DigitalMan1983_>
yeah and overall a pain in the ass
<Tonymac32>
I had an explorer I managed to get 20 mpg out of (trust me that's an accomplishment) but I had to use copper plugs as part of the magic
<DigitalMan1983_>
haha
<Tonymac32>
The Ranger gets me 16 city as is (4.10 limited slip axle 4WD)
<Tonymac32>
so I leave it alone
<Tonymac32>
esp. with gas being free
<DigitalMan1983_>
ouch
<Tonymac32>
well it was free
<DigitalMan1983_>
my car has really good gas milage but I definitely make up for it in the amount of oil it burns
<Tonymac32>
hmm, a Saturn?
<Tonymac32>
;)
<DigitalMan1983_>
apparently nissan sentras are notorious for eating oil
<Tonymac32>
those twin cam ones were notorious
<Tonymac32>
ahhhhhhh
<Tonymac32>
Datsun
<DigitalMan1983_>
I have to put in a quart a week, no joke
<Tonymac32>
my friend had a Mazda MX3 that needed a quart per tank
<Tonymac32>
1.8L V6
<Tonymac32>
might as well have been a 2-stroke
<lanefu>
Wow.
<Tonymac32>
for the saturns though all you do is run some sea-foam in the crank case, it cleans up the valve seals/etc and they'll stop burning so much
<Tonymac32>
engine made too much carbon
<lanefu>
Never had a leak that bad but was changing oil weekly cuz of a leaking head
* Tonymac32
would let it ride
<Tonymac32>
XD
<Tonymac32>
I also drive fords that seem to prefer being broken
<lanefu>
Bought me like 6 months
<Tonymac32>
I know of a Vulcan 3.0L that has had coolant seeping into the oil for at least 6 years
<lanefu>
Lol
<Tonymac32>
my truck's engine timing was done by me and my eyecrometer
<DigitalMan1983_>
is there an e-mail list for image releases?
<TRS-80>
DigitalMan1983_: Good question
<Tonymac32>
we don't have any email lsits
<Tonymac32>
hmmm
<Tonymac32>
lanefu task
<TRS-80>
yeah not really email centric project
<Tonymac32>
make Jira ticket
<Tonymac32>
profit
<lanefu>
Yeah just use ftp by email for ticket
<nekomancer[m]>
eyecrometer&
<DigitalMan1983_>
any coming up soon for A64?
<TRS-80>
DigitalMan1983_: You could come pretty close by RSS on Announcements forum perhaps
<Tonymac32>
haha
<Tonymac32>
I spun the crank to as close to TDC as I could get it,
<Tonymac32>
then I realigned the passenger side camshaft
<lanefu>
Tonymac32: sounds like it's at least within a tooth of accuracy
<Tonymac32>
apparently my lazy eye triangulated it properly
<DigitalMan1983_>
if you don't have anyone already doing it, I wanted to offer to support testing on Olinuxino
<lanefu>
DigitalMan1983_: congrats you have the job
<lanefu>
Tonymac32: did I tell you we had a guy hot tank and epoxy the fuel tank for the volvo we're working on and the dude lost the drain plug
<DigitalMan1983_>
My personal application will require USB, ethernet, midi input, audio, LCD Touch Panel, and HDMI output, possibly emmc a little later on, so all of those things would get tested, plus anything else you guys want, it's not much trouble to solder something to some GPIO pins or pull an extra UART port out
<DigitalMan1983_>
great! happy to be aboard
<lanefu>
We do need like a directory of testers
<nekomancer[m]>
MIDI inputs — then around should be a pad with some valcoders and sliders
<DigitalMan1983_>
hell yeah, what we're doing is basically similar to Zynthian, but it's drum-based (electronic trigger pads) so it will be something more like....Drumbian? I guess?
<DigitalMan1983_>
Zynthian runs on a Pi so the processor is different but same ARM64 architecture
<lanefu>
the youtube-dl incident definietly got a lot of people rethinking their hosting
<TRS-80>
Good!
<Tonymac32>
ja
<DigitalMan1983_>
wondering if I should have added a separate column for something along the lines of "area of specialty" or "discipline...or some shit
<Tonymac32>
MacTube
<Tonymac32>
wait
<Tonymac32>
hmmmmm
<TRS-80>
Things only get worse, now that they cornered the market...
<TRS-80>
DigitalMan1983_: Don't worry, we can always adjust later
<Tonymac32>
I didn't get too far with it, no idea what it's really capable of if anything
<TRS-80>
That looks pretty lightweight
<Tonymac32>
well it's Go, so maybe? probs not really though
<Tonymac32>
it claims it is lightweight, that's all it takes these days
<Tonymac32>
XD
<TRS-80>
I considered it. But I decide to throw my (tiny) little hacker weight into sr.ht. MUH FREEDUMBS
<TRS-80>
It is, in places where I have seen it
<TRS-80>
gn
<Tonymac32>
wut
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<DigitalMan1983_>
show of hands: who left the novation circuit video up and are now listening to random videos of people playing with sequencers as your background music?
<DigitalMan1983_>
...damn.
<Tonymac32>
haha I didnt see the link
<Tonymac32>
XD
* Tonymac32
is going to grab some ice cream
<DigitalMan1983_>
I was just suddenly like, why am I still listening to this?
* DigitalMan1983_
wishes he didn't pound down a half gallon of ice cream in 2 days
<lanefu>
just don't look on youtube for a pyrophone
<lanefu>
unless you want to hunt down fuel injectors and midi controllers
<lanefu>
sr.ht doesn't look particularlly easy to deploy
<lanefu>
i have them clamped on my desk and use them for lighting fro meetings lol
<c0rnelius>
archetech: So in my toying around today I was able to get 720p/1080p vids playing (not all) pretty flawless. I also got vids running good in Chromium (youtube), but I did get odd screen artifacts on the desktop, so I ended up have to switch compositors and use compton. Testing was done using Odroid C4/Debian Bullseye.
<Tonymac32>
this individual really needs to add some mounting holes
<Tonymac32>
well I guess you might need to bolt the LED's to a copper plate XD
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<lanefu>
thats nuts
<lanefu>
like how big is it
<Tonymac32>
the header on it is 0.1" pitch
<Tonymac32>
so not that big at the end of the day
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<archetech>
c0rnelius, pfrost dont affect video stuff
<c0rnelius>
archetech: really?
<c0rnelius>
ok
<nekomancer[m]>
then what stuff it affects?
<archetech>
desktop hw accel
<nekomancer[m]>
ah
<Tonymac32>
it doesn't effect decoding, but drawing I would expect have some impact
<c0rnelius>
archetech: so me getting panfrost working properly and notice a huge diff in vid play back are not related?
* nekomancer[m]
think "video" means "all I see on monitor"
<c0rnelius>
its just a side of effect?
<Tonymac32>
C0rnelius when I got the mali drivers working on Tinker a couple years back I got smooth playback because the screen draw was much improved
<archetech>
look up arm vpu vs gpu
<Tonymac32>
the decoding was still happening on the SoC in software, since it's got big cores it's able to do it
<c0rnelius>
archetech: and yet still haven't answered my first question
<c0rnelius>
thanx
<Tonymac32>
c0rnelius it should get rid of part of the problem, just not all of it
<Tonymac32>
there are 2 issues with no accel at all, 1 is decoding the video in the first place, the other is drawing it to the screen fast enough
<archetech>
yes
<nekomancer[m]>
what means "acceleration"? hardware operation like "draw line" or "copy polygon" was "accelerated" in 1996 on cheapest "S3" video cards
<c0rnelius>
I know it doesn't comes down to more than just one thing, panfrost isn't the end all solution but a part of the over all puzzle.
<Tonymac32>
so a working VPU with a non-work GPU will also suck
<nekomancer[m]>
it that "acceleration" — then what is "without acceleration""?
<archetech>
using llvmpipe vs opengl
<archetech>
theres ogl on llvmpipe though its not terrible
<archetech>
but the pf devs have to get a driver built from scratch vs using mali blobs
<Tonymac32>
right, that's the point
<archetech>
yup thats the curent state
<archetech>
bought a 2yr old sbc and didnt know or even think the gpu woudl be "not done" on mainline kernel
<c0rnelius>
For example using mesa 20.3-rc1 and kernel 5.9.y aarch64/debian bullseye on a RPi4 I can get flawless vid play back in both chromium and mpv. Using the same approach I can almost achieve this using the the C4, accept panfrost is being a bit of a bitch about it. Hence my questions about patching and anything you may know about it.
<c0rnelius>
like who's got the best ones
<archetech>
I can point you to the odroid n2 panfrost thread is about it
<c0rnelius>
k
<archetech>
go there easy to find
<Tonymac32>
I should hope so, since that's the primary purpose of the Broadcom SoC, and RPi has an exclusivity agreement to get them and all documentation to support the thing with drivers
<c0rnelius>
archetech: you belong here :D
<c0rnelius>
thanx
<nekomancer[m]>
<c0rnelius "For example using mesa 20.3-rc1 "> you choose first RPI with mainline support. Choose rpi 1,2,3 — and see no support in mainline
<Tonymac32>
I'm actually surprised they caved to market pressure
<Tonymac32>
uncharacteristic
<c0rnelius>
nekomancer[m]: there is no support (not really) for early Pi's.
<c0rnelius>
5.10.y is adding support for the vid core stuff though on the bcm2711. Not sure how well it will run though.
<nekomancer[m]>
Iknow. And point that your example are exclusion.
<Tonymac32>
archetech the Mali-450 is 8 years old and doesn't have full opensource drivers XD
<c0rnelius>
latest testing I tried it was kida shit, but was rc4
<DigitalMan1983_>
I don't know about anybody else on their board of choice but the more I evaluate the development release the more I like it from an A64 perspective. Solid.
<Tonymac32>
which one digitalman1983_ ?
<c0rnelius>
nekomancer[m]: I really don't see how one has to do with the other, anyway. Those SoCs sucked int he first place.
<DigitalMan1983_>
the last bit to check is the lcd panel, which armbian so graciously provides for the olimex-compatible panel we use:)
<Tonymac32>
ah that one
<DigitalMan1983_>
kernel 5.9.7
<nekomancer[m]>
<c0rnelius "nekomancer: I really don't see h"> bungo: it's unrelated for market.
* Tonymac32
wants something actually useful to do with an NPU
<Tonymac32>
such a waste of silicon
<DigitalMan1983_>
a little nod to the olinuxino in that kernel configuration ;)
<c0rnelius>
nekomancer[m]: I investigated something that was presented to me, just as I did so with the Odroid C4. If you have a problem, with the RPi then sorry, but its not mine.
<c0rnelius>
why does everyone measure cocks around here?
* Tonymac32
puts micrometer away
* nekomancer[m]
definitely have kind of misunderstanding
<lanefu>
Tonymac32: yeah been trying to figure out what to do with an NPU that isnt like some sort of image recognition stuff
<archetech>
c0rnelius, lol ya some think not but hey "I like little computers" too
<Tonymac32>
the NPU thing is that 100% of them are secret
<Tonymac32>
you get a translator from the vendor to modify your model into whatever the NPU takes
<Tonymac32>
so using it directly is impossible
<Tonymac32>
6 days after leaving California, I still don't have my Helios64 :'(
<Tonymac32>
ofcourse the Detroit hub might hold on to it for 2 months
<Tonymac32>
they like to do that randomly
<archetech>
so c0rnelius you can simply grab a kernel form the latest posts in that thread or build it
<archetech>
form>from
<c0rnelius>
archetech: what thread?
<archetech>
odroid>General>pnafrost
<archetech>
at odroid forum
<c0rnelius>
k
<archetech>
building it would be a fun challenge cuz the patches are like unobtanium for the layman
<c0rnelius>
would much rather examine the kernel and pull bits out and create patches. makes for a more useful experience to all users.
<c0rnelius>
thanx for the tip
<archetech>
np
<archetech>
ive built it last week didnt boot didnt bother to trblsht it
<archetech>
rc4
<archetech>
or rc3
<archetech>
my project today went well 10 yr old HP thin client now runs lxde with hw accel
<archetech>
somebody at arch found the solu
<archetech>
hp put a 64 bit cpu on a mboard with a 32 bit gpu naaaasty
<lanefu>
man opi3 NIC is just freakin broke
<archetech>
and it runs fr a 4gb ide DOM (pre-ssd flash memory)
* Tonymac32
realizes he doesn't have anywhere to put the 2 NVMe's he bought
<nekomancer[m]>
..зажрались
<lanefu>
archetech: you should be running citrix client on that
<lanefu>
armbianhelper not being so helpful
<archetech>
it has it on xp
<Tonymac32>
nekomancer[m] XD
<lanefu>
alright my lack of opi3 victory tells me its time to choose slumber
<Tonymac32>
debugging my lorawan gateway
<Tonymac32>
my other operational Pi
<Tonymac32>
well, quasi operational. It dies a lot while doing nothing
<archetech>
ahs a pcie-z slot for a little esata port multiplier
<archetech>
so for $20 plus a 4 bay enclosure I can have a helios64 for half off price
<archetech>
and be faster
<Tonymac32>
you would need a 5 bay enclosure
<archetech>
close enough
<Tonymac32>
which SBC would you start with?
<archetech>
this thin client
<Tonymac32>
Ah OK
<archetech>
I might buyone we can bench them
<Tonymac32>
my current setup is a hack job, an ODroid XU4 to USB3 RAID controller enclosure
<Tonymac32>
a reliable hack job to be sure
<archetech>
I like the new helios64 I just like tryign to cobble stuff thats close to pre-built
<archetech>
for lots less thats the challenge
<Tonymac32>
haha yeah, I'm not saying it's bad, I've used my setup for 7 years now
<Tonymac32>
hence the need to look at a replacement
<archetech>
sometimes it just nice to get a new nas
<archetech>
that isnt qnap like cost
<Tonymac32>
I started with an RPi running the RAID tower, but after 4-5 SD cards and a severe lack of bandwidth capability I got the XU4
<archetech>
xu4 the fav of many omv users
<Tonymac32>
8 cores = no screwing around lol
<Tonymac32>
and USB3 and GbE, which was hard to come buy when that launched
<archetech>
arch uses a farm of them of them for packaging
<archetech>
distcc
<Tonymac32>
I am setting up a farm of them for similar stuff
<Tonymac32>
I have 5 of the MC1's
<Tonymac32>
and the XU4 once it's off server duty
<archetech>
yeah thats a good idea xu4 has the head
<Tonymac32>
I'd love to see a newer exynos make it's way into an SBC, I think that went pretty well for Hardkernel
<lanefu>
Ya and I should look at menuconfig on a default build and see if I missed the obvious lol
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<cpu0-on-fire>
hmm I guess I got confused by something else…
<cpu0-on-fire>
my bad
<cpu0-on-fire>
however I swear I read that rt would make it into mainline on 5.9
<lanefu>
Yeah something like that sounds familiar
<lanefu>
Back to sleep
<Werner>
Sleep well
<Heisath>
g'night and morning!
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<Heisath>
IgorPec: can you have a quick look at this? https://github.com/armbian/build/pull/2362 I tested the changes (works) but want to make sure you dont remember anything where we need these patches.
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<IgorPec>
heisath: you mean we don't loose rtc
<IgorPec>
well, some patches are dated back to 2014
<IgorPec>
it seems OP knowns what he is talking about
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<Heisath>
I checked, rtc is still working
<Heisath>
Tested both current and legacy on both boards. So I will merge
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<emOne_>
Compiler Y U NO RUN?
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<rneese>
who what where wwhen how why anf for what reason
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<IgorPec>
no reason :)
<TRS-80>
Good morning!
<IgorPec>
i will have lunch soon. good morning anyway
<TRS-80>
stipa: Does that one (hopefully) leave ebay or something like it in the name (not a fan of link obfuscation)?
<TRS-80>
in the short name I mean
<stipa>
yes
<TRS-80>
nice
<stipa>
yeah
<stipa>
it was given to me by some chick on freenode when i pasted the "ebay" link in a chatroom...
<cpu0-on-fire>
stipa, TRS-80: re wifi on opi 0… I'm giving up and switching to orange pi zero 2 instead
<cpu0-on-fire>
the wifi uses a broadcom chip, which works ok with mainline
<TRS-80>
Link rneese posted yesterday took the cake! eBay is reaching levels of link retardation previously not thought possible
<TRS-80>
cpu0-on-fire: Thanks for update. WiFi is one area plagued with proprietary drivers, firmware, etc. (unfortunately).
<cpu0-on-fire>
no matter what I did, I just couldn't get it working. The armbian defconfig crashe mu kernel build in the midle, and grabbing the only patches I found for xr819 didn't help
<TRS-80>
If this were not the case, things could potentially be fixed in software.
<cpu0-on-fire>
*my
<TRS-80>
Can the OPi Zero actually be purchased (unlike its RPi counterpart, which seems little more than a marketing stunt to me)?
<cpu0-on-fire>
yep
<cpu0-on-fire>
can be bought in bulk
<TRS-80>
nice
<cpu0-on-fire>
but yes the rpi is a kiddy platform :p no offense intended, but if your platform can't even be bought in bulk, then you're not ready for commercial usage imo
<TRS-80>
cpu0-on-fire: No worries, most of us are RPi haters here (for good reasons though, which I guess is not hate).
<cpu0-on-fire>
could be justified hate lol
<TRS-80>
this is one little corner of the Internet not awash with RPi mania, let's just say (and it's so refreshing)
<cpu0-on-fire>
indeed
<cpu0-on-fire>
I dislike rpi if only for the fact they are sticking with broadcom, don't provide an actual 64 bit OS that is even worth it… Oh and they have a bug in their hardware rev of the pi 4, where nothing beyond the 3 fist gb of ram were detected
<cpu0-on-fire>
they glued a fix with software till they could revision the hardware again
<TRS-80>
Reminds me of the time I had been away from the project for some time then suddenly out of nowhere IgorPec and I found ourselves arguing with people about RPi in very same thread as one another at OpenHAB forums. It felt to me like scene from movie where you bump into old friend you have not seen in long time back to back while being surrounded in a gunfight or something. :D
<cpu0-on-fire>
hahaha
<cpu0-on-fire>
I started experiementing on sbc with odroid c2
<TRS-80>
cpu0-on-fire: RPi is a Broadcom (sub-)project... Which is one of biggest red flags. They have been fanously hostile fo F/LOSS for a very long time now.
<TRS-80>
s/fo/to
<ArmbianHelper>
TRS-80 meant to say: cpu0-on-fire: RPi is a Broadcom (sub-)project... Which is one of biggest red flags. They have been fanously hostile to F/LOSS for a very long time now.
<cpu0-on-fire>
yeah, tell me about it LOL working on another project with a stm32mp1 based platform, and the wifi there is broadcom… Ah well. At least it works, unlike the stupid xr819 chip
<stipa>
TRS-80: yeah, ebay links are strange, some are short some are long.
<cpu0-on-fire>
I absolutely like this stm32mp1 baby board hehe
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<cpu0-on-fire>
I say baby board because well, tiny dualcore 650mhz, 512 mb ram and 4 gb of storage
<stipa>
that's oke for network
<cpu0-on-fire>
but the stm32mp1 SoC is well supported in mainline, and I think they are collaborating with kernel guys
<cpu0-on-fire>
stipa: yep, network, audio as well… I'm making an audio player that is blind friendly
<stipa>
so it's like module you can solder on the PCB?
<cpu0-on-fire>
no messing around with display, yay
<stipa>
oh, cool project
<cpu0-on-fire>
stipa: depends what you get. I grabbed the SeeedStudio stm32mp157c SoM and the dev board they made based on it
<cpu0-on-fire>
their SoM doesn't require soldering, its a 70 pins connector
<stipa>
i see
<cpu0-on-fire>
the SoM includes the SoC, the ram, eMMC storage and a power management unit
<cpu0-on-fire>
the rest is all up to the carrier board
<stipa>
paste some pics
<cpu0-on-fire>
hmmm I don't have any, sorry :(
<cpu0-on-fire>
I can't take pictures ;) I'm blind
<stipa>
I couldn't tell, your writing is good.
<cpu0-on-fire>
:) learned keyboard by heart
<stipa>
It works good!
<cpu0-on-fire>
yeah :D
<stipa>
But man, how can you code?
<cpu0-on-fire>
LOL I don't
<stipa>
that's complex even for me.
<cpu0-on-fire>
making OS image and stuff I'm okay with, but actual code, oh lord
<stipa>
lol
<emOne_>
IgorPec: I think I was using the wrong repo to compile on ARM!
<emOne_>
that is madness
<TRS-80>
reminds me of guy with carpal tunnel or some other disease that adapt some speech to text for coding
<stipa>
cpu0-on-fire: coding is a mess, i don't blame you.
<TRS-80>
cpu0-on-fire: So what do you use like a screen reader or something?
<cpu0-on-fire>
yea
<cpu0-on-fire>
currently espeakup, bridge between espeak and speakup screen reader which is inside the kernel itself
<TRS-80>
impressive, I would have never suspected had you not mentioned it
<cpu0-on-fire>
hehe
<cpu0-on-fire>
I don't mention it unless requires
<cpu0-on-fire>
*required
<stipa>
cpu0-on-fire: no worries.
<cpu0-on-fire>
some people play it all on their blindness :p I don't
<emOne_>
cpu0-on-fire: what do you think of Elon Musk's neuralink? Have you heard of it?
<cpu0-on-fire>
hmm never heard of it
<emOne_>
It is a chip brain implant for additional functionality
<TRS-80>
cpu0-on-fire: I have a family member who play up their (minor) crippled-ness, it's a bit annoying. So, much credit to you.
<cpu0-on-fire>
hmm
<cpu0-on-fire>
I'm not sure
<emOne_>
half human, half cyborg
<TRS-80>
Ghost in the Shell in our lifetime?
<cpu0-on-fire>
I've seen that some folks were attempting to create a retina in chip form, but right now the biggest problem is the heat. It gets hot enough to burn your eye
<TRS-80>
must have been Nvidea chip
<emOne_>
lol
<cpu0-on-fire>
LOL
<TRS-80>
house_fire.jpg
<cpu0-on-fire>
:D
<emOne_>
TRS-80 unfortunately that youtube link applies to more than just nvidia these days I feel
<TRS-80>
emOne_: Of course
<cpu0-on-fire>
in fact it was dangerously hot, and they hadn't even gone past the 600 electrodes, while the final chip is expected to have around 100k of them
<TRS-80>
emOne_: Certain companies go out of their way to be hostile to F/LOSS and Nvidea is one of them, Broadcom too. It's especially annoying in Broadcom case where the average muppet thinks the RPi is some sort of "Linux hacking" device, when in reality the platform is completely locked down.
<TRS-80>
Just another company riding on the current wave of F/LOSS success (while being actually quite hostile to it in reality)
<cpu0-on-fire>
floss ? I have teeth floss too… ah not that kind
<cpu0-on-fire>
lol
<emOne_>
ahah
<emOne_>
ok so F/LOSS to FOSS is like GNU/Linux to Linux
<emOne_>
right?
<TRS-80>
I agree with rms that we should accentuate the Freedom part, hence I add the L. But I try not to be too pedantic about it, to the point of turning people off. I read an interesting article about that very point just last night in fact.
<TRS-80>
A bit, I suppose
<cpu0-on-fire>
I like open source and free softwares, don't get me wrong. I just wish more of them would care about accessibility to disabled people
<emOne_>
cpu0-on-fire: the brain implant is supposed to help with a few things. It is essentially attached through electrodes to the brain
<cpu0-on-fire>
emOne_: interesting :)
<emOne_>
it can help with disability and bridge the spine with the brain if the spine has been damaged
<cpu0-on-fire>
wow cool
<TRS-80>
I dunno, I consider F/LOSS and FOSS perhaps as almost interchangeable terms. Making a point of saying GNU/Linux (which I also agree with and often do) is for a particular reason.
<cpu0-on-fire>
if it can fix blindness for those that lack retinas, all the better hehe
<TRS-80>
cpu0-on-fire: My impression was that there was much more support in F/LOSS / FOSS for that sort of stuff than proprietary software, no? I mean, I sure see it mentioned, argued about a lot (accessibility). But of course you might know better.
<emOne_>
TRS-80: agreed 100%. Stallman did after all make Linux as we know it today. .. without making the Linux kernel
<emOne_>
what we know as Linux is really GNU/Linux
<TRS-80>
Ahem, GNU/Linux :D
<cpu0-on-fire>
I got my retinas litterally burned to ash because of a too high level of oxygen in an incubator. Hyperoxia fscked up real bad
<emOne_>
lol exactly
<TRS-80>
ACKTCHUALLY.jpg
<emOne_>
that sucks cpu0-on-fire
<cpu0-on-fire>
I think it probably must have hurt
<emOne_>
cpu0-on-fire: it is great that we have things like IRC and other online communications platforms where we can be interconnected with the whole world instantaneously no matter how cripple or blind we are
<cpu0-on-fire>
but heh, what's a 24 weeks old baby gonna say… well 24 weeks as in, born after only 24 weeks
<emOne_>
and best of all we can make great things happen in this interconnected world
<cpu0-on-fire>
yep I like that very much
<emOne_>
some people are against that idea
<TRS-80>
emOne_: +1 Things like GNU/Linux, Armbian development, etc...
<emOne_>
absolutely TRS-80
<cpu0-on-fire>
emOne_: what ? Why ?
<emOne_>
they think people could be plotting
<TRS-80>
cpu0-on-fire: You know, The Man want to keep us down
<cpu0-on-fire>
TRS-80: major project might care about usability for disabled folks, it's true. But I can give you quite a bunch that don't
<emOne_>
at least this is a conversation I had with someone
<cpu0-on-fire>
gitea, ardour, gitlab seems to semi do
<emOne_>
his point was that evil terrorists could be chatting to each other so the internet is dangerous
<emOne_>
not like they can't chat in real life
<cpu0-on-fire>
even armbian itself is having trouble… armbian-config is impossible to use, too many columns I'm guessing
<cpu0-on-fire>
it confuses the screen reader
<emOne_>
but now that it is corona time and social distancing is a must ,, tell that to the believers that communicating with each other (over any means) is a bad thing
<cpu0-on-fire>
lol yeah
<emOne_>
whether afk or online lol
<emOne_>
you said that communication is bad...now go back to your social distancing :P
<cpu0-on-fire>
:D
<emOne_>
show us how it is done lol
<emOne_>
set an example .. c'mon .. o it
<emOne_>
do it
<emOne_>
and don't use online chats either ,, coz evil terrorists
<TRS-80>
cpu0-on-fire: I guess my point was often it seems (to me, as a person who is on many such F/LOSS mailing lists where such things are discussed) that it is given great import in F/LOSS and argued for often, and thus I would gather that in general and across the board, I would think it better supported. Also the fact that simple and plain text type of interfaces are almost universal throughout
<TRS-80>
F/LOSS, it is the proprietary companies who seem to me to keep trying to silo everyone into their platforms, and often via proprietary protocols (i.e., no way to interact via simple text, as in almost all of F/LOSS and Unix-like OS).
<cpu0-on-fire>
yep
<cpu0-on-fire>
that's true, for the most part
<TRS-80>
OK, good to have some sort of confirmation what I suspected, thanks
<cpu0-on-fire>
but it sure is disapointing when your ask the maintainer of one software about accessibility and the only response you get is a no
<cpu0-on-fire>
no as in, they won't bother
<TRS-80>
I realize it may seem that way. But often I would suspect it's just lack of resources.
<cpu0-on-fire>
so, hmm… ardour, gitgea, any website that uses semantics ui/fomatic ui
<cpu0-on-fire>
gitlab
<cpu0-on-fire>
they all have big problems
<TRS-80>
Especially in case of project like Armbian or other small / community projects.
<cpu0-on-fire>
*gitea eve
<TRS-80>
All of those you mentioned also have a lot more resources at their disposal.
<emOne_>
I have seen companies abuse open source licenses
<TRS-80>
emOne_: More news at 11! :D
<emOne_>
heh
<cpu0-on-fire>
they have resources, yes, and yet they don't try fixing it
<emOne_>
I have seen companies use source code and not disclose the code
<cpu0-on-fire>
semantics ui is dead, back when they were active they went as far as rejecting pr to improve accessibility
<cpu0-on-fire>
fomantic ui does the same kind of thing
<emOne_>
even when I mailed a company asking for the source code because I saw that they were using some open source code .. and they didn't comply
<TRS-80>
emOne_: It's rampant, actually, with some of these SBC and other devices. Allwinner probably most famously. https://linux-sunxi.org/GPL_Violations
<cpu0-on-fire>
hehe I dislike allwinner real bad, not just because they violate the gpl
<TRS-80>
cpu0-on-fire: You should read big PR I just put in at Armbian, infact using the word semantic. :)
<cpu0-on-fire>
also because they openly steal designs and things from others, lie about cpu specs
<emOne_>
We should make an Open Source court
<cpu0-on-fire>
TRS-80: ahah nah I meant the scemantic ui framework
<TRS-80>
Allwinner support is great because of the community and in spite of Allwinner, remember that
<TRS-80>
cpu0-on-fire: But semantic means semantic... i.e., separate content from formatting
<cpu0-on-fire>
yep
<emOne_>
A court with Free/Libre and de-centralised laws
<cpu0-on-fire>
content isn't the problem. What is the problem is not caring about accessibility of the widgets they provide
<TRS-80>
emOne_: Orgs like SFC and others have sued from time to time. And won.
<cpu0-on-fire>
no aria roles or anything to help screen reader figure things out
<TRS-80>
cpu0-on-fire: We are living in a world where the "modern" web has become almost unbearable, due to castles of JavaScript and other nonsense.
<emOne_>
I know about the EFF. What is the SFC?
<cpu0-on-fire>
but allwinner isn't great, sure. The stole the design for their ethernet things directloy from stmicroelectronics
<cpu0-on-fire>
*directly
<TRS-80>
emOne_: Software Freedom Conservancy
<TRS-80>
emOne_: There is ongoing debate about when to sue, vs try and educate companies into GPL compliance. I am like you, let's get out the pitchforks (and lawsuits) but in reality it's a legitimate debate if that's actually productive to the end goal or not
<emOne_>
I never said I am for getting out the pitchforks :)
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<emOne_>
But could you imagine the implactions of a F/LOSS court?
<emOne_>
and I am not talking about a court that is just there to settle open source software conflicts
<emOne_>
but rather a court that is concerned with Libre
<emOne_>
De-centralised laws and contracts
<cpu0-on-fire>
ewww the gpl violations are nasty, for sure
<TRS-80>
emOne_: I think maybe you are not understanding the entire (legal) basis of Copyleft, which is based upon using existing law (Copyright) to turn it back on itself. What you are talking about may be nice (in theory) but Copyleft was specifically designed to have real legal teeth, and strike at the heart of Copyright within our current existing legal framework today.
<TRS-80>
So, in a sense, what you are suggesting already exists. In that, anyone can already be taken to (regular) court for GPL violation.
<TRS-80>
Unless, I guess you meant "specific courts for just that."
<emOne_>
That is not what I mean no
<emOne_>
What I mean has implications which are much more far reaching than "just" intellectual property copyright laws
<emOne_>
but perhaps that is for another time
<TRS-80>
Well, the "IP" laws are the problem, and one the Copyleft was designed explicitly to solve. And I think it is a gigantic and entrenched problem within the current legal framework (i.e., I personally would not dismiss it as "just" anything, rather I see it as one of biggest and worst problems).
<TRS-80>
But we can stop any time. Or continue. As you wish. :)
rneese has left #armbian ["Leaving"]
<emOne_>
who are you? Morpheus from the Matrix?
<emOne_>
:D heh
<stipa>
if you live in the same country as someone who stole IP from you than law could help, but if someone who had stolen IP from you lives on the other side of the planet things are so complex that noone want's to deal with it, hence China stealing stuff and they get away with it.
<emOne_>
TRS-80: Let's continue
<emOne_>
Let's delve deeper into this rabbit hole
<TRS-80>
stipa: The (unfortunate, IMO, even as an American) truth is that "American style" "IP" laws are spreading most everywhere, due to so called "trade" agreements (which are actually nothing of the sort)
* TRS-80
holds out both hands, palms open, containing you know what
<emOne_>
Perhaps it isn't explicitly China who is stealing stuff and getting away with it?
<emOne_>
Maybe they're all playing that game?
<emOne_>
including the USA or whoever
<TRS-80>
Well, any country that is sort of outside the Atlanticist sphere of influence will do whatevert they want. I'll give a clue: these are the countries you hear are "bad" all the time in Western media. ;)
<emOne_>
The problem becomes when you become more advanced than that country and you don't have anyone to steal from ;)
<emOne_>
What are you going to steal when your paper currency becomes worthless ?
<emOne_>
toilet paper ?
<emOne_>
devaluation
<emOne_>
that is a thing
<TRS-80>
It seems popular to blame China for stealing "IP" (and in fact there is a lot of truth to that) but do not forget that greedy Western / multinational companies gave up the Western tech patrimony to them just to shave a few dollars off their production costs (while still selling their devices here at Western prices)
<stipa>
China is growing fast
<lanefu>
emOne_: se DM when you get a sec
<stipa>
thanks to IP they stole
<stipa>
:D
<stipa>
inventors have big problems
<TRS-80>
Not disagreeing, just trying to point out that greedy multinationals also played a part. Extremely short sighted profit motivation.
<stipa>
it7s busniess
<stipa>
it's
<stipa>
if you wan't to earn money on stolen IP just go to live in China
DigitalMan1983_9 has joined #armbian
<stipa>
ebay, alibaba... will take care of the rest
<DigitalMan1983_9>
hey gang
<TRS-80>
Good morning, DigitalMan1983_9
<emOne_>
are you saying those arm boxes the chinese are selling are a result of stolen IP?
<DigitalMan1983_9>
how's everyone doing today?
<TRS-80>
emOne_: Maybe not ARM chips themselves but we talking in general and about other things, too
<TRS-80>
I personally just find it interesting that corporations been participating in wage arbitrage by offshoring for decades, but as soon as these "wonderful benefits of international trade" become available to us peasants (AliExpress, etc.) WE MUST HAVE A TRADE WAR! lol It's all so tiresome...
<emOne_>
That is an interesting point
<emOne_>
Personally I am not very political
<stipa>
emOne_: could you get an example of a product people on west use that is from china and it's based on their IP?
<stipa>
give*
<emOne_>
Huawei has established itself as one of the biggest phone manufacturers in the world
<emOne_>
that is one I can think of
<stipa>
yeah, but what about parts in it?
<emOne_>
I don't disagree with you
<emOne_>
IP is very important
<stipa>
Huawei is just a fancy plastic box
<emOne_>
If I innovate something I wouldn't want to have my IP infringed upon
<emOne_>
going around and pointing the fingers at China might not do you personally any good though
<emOne_>
who is this China anyway?
<emOne_>
Having your IP stolen by ANYONE is wrong. Period.
<stipa>
it's not he law people are afraid off it's the expenses of the trail.
<stipa>
one who has more money wins
<stipa>
court likes money and that's what they'll chose
<emOne_>
can you ellaborate?
<stipa>
as a small inventor you don't have much choices than to fail if someone stoles yout IP
<TRS-80>
emOne_: I don't disagree. However, and respectfully, this is not the problem with "IP" laws. It is always presented that way (being about the inventor, the song writer) while in reality something like 6 corporations own almost our entire cultural heritage, and copyright law keps getting extended, currently life of the artist + 100 years or some such nonsense. See:
<emOne_>
and I would love to meet you all for a pint of beer at the pub and discuss this
<TRS-80>
To further make my point, these corps (the ones owning all the "IP") do not give a damn about the small inventor, song writer, etc. In fact this is self serving industry propaganda. Labels are famously ripping off music artists in most cases since forever.
<TRS-80>
emOne_: Cheers, mate. :)
<emOne_>
TRQ
<emOne_>
TRS-80: yes I have heard about music artists having their work stolen
<emOne_>
and that it is quite rampant
<emOne_>
how would you conclude your idea? What is the right way to go about IP?
<emOne_>
as a small artist, inventor or as a big corporation?
<cpu0-on-fire>
for those interested in the stm32mp1
<cpu0-on-fire>
the one I chose
<emOne_>
TRS-80: ?
<TRS-80>
Wow that's complex. I don't have all the answers. But it does seem to me that the current regime is extremely one sided, serving one particular private industry at the expense of many others and also individuals and the greater good, and needs to be dramatically curtailed.
<emOne_>
It would be interesting to know the semantic history of the word "rights"
<emOne_>
I know three languages. German, Russian and English
<emOne_>
in all languages the direction is the same as the law (right)
<stipa>
cpu0-on-fire: i see it, yeah stm module is on a speperate board sticked to the main big board.
<TRS-80>
In the Western canon there is a long and established time line of philosophy about this (can you tell I studied it)? :)
<cpu0-on-fire>
stipa: also its nice because I was wondering for a long time why st decided to make a linux compatible platform
<emOne_>
I thought you might have since you show a deep understanding of a right vs a copy left
<cpu0-on-fire>
stipa: turns out it is so people can continue using stm32 controllers while also having some linux compatible board connected to them
<emOne_>
it is interesting how all three languages use the same word for the direction and the law
<cpu0-on-fire>
like for rt OS
<stipa>
emOne_: I would try to get a job with a big company
<emOne_>
tell me more TRS-80:)
<TRS-80>
emOne_: I was looking for something
<TRS-80>
But it is essential to understand the idea of "Natural" (God-given, for the religious) rights
<stipa>
cpu0-on-fire: yeah, stm is manily in microcontroller market, it's refreshing that they moved to linux based chips, it was the news to me to when you told it today.
<cpu0-on-fire>
stipa: costs more than orange pi for sure, but doesn't feel like crap. Oh sure the hardware on opi works great in mainline, but its all thanks to the community not to allwinner
<TRS-80>
emOne_: These are rights you are born with, and thus cannot be taken away. You will not hear this discussed in government school btw. Essentially "the Bill of Rights" but in no way /limited to just those/ which is a common misnomer.
<cpu0-on-fire>
I'm probably not in the best of moods to be nice toward the orange pi right now, since I've been spending at least 4 days on the wifi issue, and decided to give it up as a bad job today
<emOne_>
TRS-80: and why are they not lefts?
<TRS-80>
Thinks like right to speak, assemble, defend yourself. Things you have by default and automatically just by being born. As long as you are not infringing on anyone else's rights.
<TRS-80>
emOne_: oh you meant the entymology of the word
<stipa>
cpu0-on-fire: yeah, few people are working on all those boards, it tkaes time to make everything working perfectly.
<emOne_>
i.e. The Bill of Lefts
<[TheBug]>
wait, what, why is an old Cortex-A7 w/ USB 2.0 exciting?
<TRS-80>
hmm, dunno, never studied that
<cpu0-on-fire>
also, it was really annoying to see what was written about the driver directly in its readme
<emOne_>
in Russian and German the word itself is the same as the direction. I.e. if you are going right
<cpu0-on-fire>
This driver just about works. If it loads and starts working normally it usually doesn't have any major issues until you try to reboot. The structure of the driver isn't great and it can lock up the kernel if it gets confused. It's not production ready for your large scale commercial IoT deployment.
<emOne_>
is the same as your natural right
<TRS-80>
interesting
<emOne_>
in Russian Prava is right
<cpu0-on-fire>
Also: The xr819 chip/firmware drops tons and tons of frames with FCS errors and this makes performance horrible at best. Most people have lost interest in having anything to do with the xr819.
<emOne_>
the direction and the legal right
<emOne_>
same in german
<emOne_>
and probably in quite a few other languages too
<emOne_>
in German it is Rechts
<TRS-80>
I was talking about "rights" not "right and left" (the latter having become poisonously divisive terms nowadays)
<emOne_>
I was talking about both
<TRS-80>
just to be clear
<TRS-80>
but I take you (entomological) point
<TRS-80>
interesting
<[TheBug]>
cpu0-on-fire: if you want reliable wifi for anything more than streaming a few videos you are gonna need a dongle for that board, as you stated that wifi chipset is known to be flakey even in the best configurations
<TRS-80>
[TheBug]: I think you missed part where he said he gave up on it
<TRS-80>
[TheBug]: in fairness it was first thing this morning and we been talking a lot since then
<[TheBug]>
no.. just re-affirming his thoughts
<TRS-80>
ok
<[TheBug]>
they used it on a bunch of H3 boards
<[TheBug]>
quite aware of that chipset ;/
<TRS-80>
as the main one flooding the channel, I feel the least I can do si offer some summary :D
<cpu0-on-fire>
[TheBug]: tell me you also iht the stupid 'invalid argument' with ip link set wlan0 up, please
<cpu0-on-fire>
lol
<cpu0-on-fire>
I'll feel less lonely
<[TheBug]>
well most of my experience was with H3Droid (Android) and working with it there -- the android implementations of wpa_supplicant are slightly more reliable but as far as mainline support the drives pretty crap
<[TheBug]>
drivers*
<[TheBug]>
H3Droid provide dual boot compatability with Armbian and when we had them sharing legacy kernel at one point the wifi was semi-reliable, but we them moved armbian into mainline and saw same degradation in performance you speak of
<cpu0-on-fire>
well in my case, it simply never worked. Not even once
<[TheBug]>
s/them/then
<ArmbianHelper>
[TheBug] meant to say: H3Droid provide dual boot compatability with Armbian and when we had then sharing legacy kernel at one point the wifi was semi-reliable, but we them moved armbian into mainline and saw same degradation in performance you speak of
<cpu0-on-fire>
except on armbian
<[TheBug]>
well if it is an H3 you can grab H3Droid and test it out in Android ;)
<cpu0-on-fire>
hmm
<cpu0-on-fire>
its h2-plus, variant of h3 or so I heard
<[TheBug]>
H3droid is actually nice cause you get full root access
<[TheBug]>
h2+ is H3
<[TheBug]>
just a dumbed down chip, can't clock as high and usually is lacking a voltage regulator on board and seet to highest freq by most vendors
<cpu0-on-fire>
and re: wifi dongles, I'm not even tempted… its pretty damn hard to get a dongle that's worth it under linux, and somehow manage to hit a well supported chip
<cpu0-on-fire>
no garenty at all that the chip in your dongle will be in mine, even if I buy the very same model
<[TheBug]>
well my suggestion there is grab one of the ones that HardKernel sells as they have a few models that they have tested for all their boards that generally have reliable Linux drivers
<[TheBug]>
if your in US Ameridroid resells them locally
<cpu0-on-fire>
nah am in france
<[TheBug]>
ahh well, they vet their dongles so if you were gonna have a chance at getting a good reliable one, thats where I would source it
<[TheBug]>
have one I use on my c2 and it's been stable for years
<cpu0-on-fire>
knowing which chip will also be a good idea, because I will need to grab the correct kernel module :D build from source and all
<cpu0-on-fire>
good thing I got the expension board huh
<cpu0-on-fire>
I already have a gps dongle attached
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<TRS-80>
emOne_: I am not a fan of platforms like Medium, but that was a good article. Thanks for sharing! And he did not once touch on political meanings (probably wisely, lol).
<cpu0-on-fire>
[TheBug]: which one did you pick ? The wifi module 5a or the 0 ?
<emOne_>
I would think so yes
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<emOne_>
I think there is an underlying connection between the etymology of the word itself and the understanding of law and rights
<emOne_>
I have read that in Europe pupils would get caned if they were left handed
<emOne_>
everyone was expected to write with their right hand
<emOne_>
even if the hand writing would look bad when a left handed person wrote with his wrong hand
<cpu0-on-fire>
heh
<cpu0-on-fire>
doesn't surprise me
<TRS-80>
I never studied prior to today, but given the history and entomoogy lesson it would appear you are on the right track. There is that word again. lol
<emOne_>
right is straight and left is sinister and awkward :)
<emOne_>
do you prefer Lexis Nexis over medium as someone who has studied law and philosophy?
<emOne_>
"right is straight and left is sinister and awkward :)" That's how people attach meaningless ideas or heard mentalities to words.. we ofc know this is not true
<emOne_>
TRS-80: perhaps that rabbit hole goes deeper than you think?
<TRS-80>
I mean, good thoughts can be found potentially anywhere. I just wish that smart people with good thoughts would not contribute them to platforms like Medium. I believe (strongly) that people should publish their own blogs, because I think this makes for a more resilient (decentralized) Internet and marketplace of ideas.
<TRS-80>
Which brings me back to something you asked me earlier, essentially "what is the solution?" You caught me a bit off guard. But while getting a drink I remembered that I think almost all current problems in all areas (money, economy, politics, power, etc.) are results of too much centralization. And therefore decentralization (in all things) I have come to think may be the answer.
<emOne_>
There has to be free choice
<emOne_>
Everyone has to be able to choose if they want centralisation or if they want de-centralisation
<emOne_>
There have been attempts for instance to make de-centralised social media platforms
<emOne_>
they failed badly in the end
<emOne_>
and facebook is still the dominant playr
<emOne_>
Look at IRC over Discord
<emOne_>
IRC vs Discord
<TRS-80>
The problem is that I think vast majority of people "go with the flow." The believe what they are told at face value without questioning, etc. Or at least whatever is repeated often enough (even if it is not true). This is why control of the mass media (and platforms) turns out to be more important than the truth, free will, choice, etc. It's a tricky fine line.
<TRS-80>
As a counter example I would give you email. It is a standardized, federated, open protocol that simply works everywhere. Because no one particular entity controls it.
<TRS-80>
We do need to recognize network effects also
<emOne_>
that is true
<TRS-80>
I think more and more people beginning to question these big platforms (given many recent happenings).
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<TRS-80>
But I admit, very few will actually take action. All I can do is try and make those options available. I run some XMPP server and other services and been trying for years to get my family and friends on there. Very low uptake, it's somewhat depressing in fact. lol
<emOne_>
SSL certificates have become a default on most websites. It is possible to achieve action from time to time it seems
<emOne_>
10 years ago SSL encrypted sites was a rare thing even on websites of big corporations
<TRS-80>
emOne_: Maybe you are unaware that many people (who are in the know on such things) fear the entire certificate chain to be backdoored by agencies like NSA, lol
<emOne_>
touch
<emOne_>
touche
<TRS-80>
They will let their fellow oligarchs do their commerce and banking in a way that will not upset any muppets nor cause a breakdown of those systems, but if you need to speak freely against the established order make sure yo uare using more modern (and potentially end to end) encryption
<TRS-80>
s/commerce/e-commerce/
<ArmbianHelper>
TRS-80 meant to say: They will let their fellow oligarchs do their e-commerce and banking in a way that will not upset any muppets nor cause a breakdown of those systems, but if you need to speak freely against the established order make sure yo uare using more modern (and potentially end to end) encryption
<stipa>
you get banned if you're to smart
<stipa>
from those systems
<stipa>
why would you one guy be smarter than all other sheeps
<stipa>
which are geniuses
<TRS-80>
stipa: I expect my adversary to be nation state and therefore I read a lot
<TRS-80>
not saying I am, but I do try as much as I can
<emOne_>
IRC for instance is awful when it comes to encryption
<TRS-80>
true, but this is not the purpose of IRC
<TRS-80>
it's more important that it be open and easy access
<emOne_>
times change
<emOne_>
it could be open and also be much more secure
<emOne_>
even whatsapp was forced to adopt encryption as it used to be wide open for snooping
<emOne_>
from anywhere in the world
<emOne_>
again,, perhaps there is a backdoor . who knows
<TRS-80>
If like me you think privacy should be the default in personal communication, and like to do your civic duty by removing low hanging fruit, it is pretty easy to set up XMPP server (Prosody) on Armbian and runs very well on even very low power devices. In fact for us more reliable and faster than sending SMS/MMS these days!
<TRS-80>
Conversation client on Android I can also highly recommend. And Profanity client in terminal. All support OMEMO which is modern and good end to end encryption and support multi user chat. iOS however is another story (I have some nice/nephews with those and the support is not as good, unsurprisingly).
<emOne_>
The problem becomes centralisation and also adoption of the technology by others
<emOne_>
I will write those down
<TRS-80>
stuff like email and running your own XMPP server (Prosody, etc.) are more properly known as "federation"
<TRS-80>
I mean, if you actually run your own email server
<TRS-80>
interoperable protocols
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<emOne_>
that is a good point yes
<emOne_>
everyone should run their own email client tbh
<emOne_>
email server
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<TRS-80>
I am always happy to help anyone increase their own privact / security, feel free to reach out any time if you decide to implement and run into any snags. The Prosody XMPP group chat is also excellent with support.
<emOne_>
is that an armbian specific group?
<TRS-80>
emOne_: Email is an interesting case. Given my interests and proclivities, I have gone back and forth myself on this for a very long time. As anyone who has ran an email server will tell you it is famously a never ending hassle. And in fact when the vast majority of people are already using services like Gmail, Microsoft whatever, etc. your emails you send from your own mail server end up in
<TRS-80>
those systems anyway. And it's all plain text and does not take encryption (well, for lots reasons). Sorry to be a downer. lol
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<TRS-80>
emOne_: No, not Armbian. Prosody is one of 2 oft mentioned XMPP servers (the other being.. I forget now). But generally Prosody regarded as being less complex and easier for small user like us setting up our own server for small group, etc. https://prosody.im/
<emOne_>
excellent
<emOne_>
yes I thought you meant a spcific armbian related group server
<emOne_>
cool I will take a look
<TRS-80>
They do their support in an (XMPP based) group chat (dogfooding) at xmpp:prosody@conference.prosody.im. I have gone in there before and they are very helpful.
<emOne_>
cool!
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<Heisath>
IgorPec: Are you using the switch portion of your clearfogpro?
<TRS-80>
emOne_: The thought occurred to me to maybe offer to host an XMPP server for Armbian, but then I thought it's not needed. Because it's easy to host multiple virtual domains from one server, actually.
<emOne_>
unconditionally
<emOne_>
eventually
<TRS-80>
emOne_: It's available right in Debian if you are interested. And mostly easy to set up. Certificates are a little tricky (bit certificates always are if you never did them before). But just some little config. Ours have been running flawless for years with no fuss. One of most successfull F/LOSS software projects I ever implement. It just works.
<TRS-80>
emOne_: In meantime there are lots of free XMPP servers available online. Of course the best is to do your own. But in meantime... We also have accounts other places as back ups in case Internet goes out here or whatever.
<emOne_>
I will take a look
<emOne_>
perhaps I will download a client and connect to other servers for now to see what XMPP is all about
<TRS-80>
emOne_: Don't hesitate to reach out if you have any question after reading a bit.
<emOne_>
it is great for a private group for sure
<emOne_>
TRS-80: Thank you so much. Will do!
<TRS-80>
If you are on Android I can highly recommend Conversations client. You can even install it from F-Droid. Fully Free Software (GPL3)! https://conversations.im
<Werner>
Why jabber and nothing matrix based?
<TRS-80>
Werner: I don't think I like Matrix, but I keep looking into it from time to time. Slowly been warming to it (maybe).
<Werner>
maybe try the weechat implementation
<TRS-80>
OMEMO is based on the same famous "double ratchet" algorithm, FWIW
<TRS-80>
I just prefer open standards to marketing terms and marketing wanks. Just my personal preference.
<TRS-80>
^ it must have arrived (I don't even need to look) :D
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<stipa>
Registered : Sep 24 19:27:53 2020 (7w 6d 20h ago) I came to #armbian with the intent to get hostapd noscan patch going, at that time i didn't know how to do it and it was a rocket science to me. I sucseeded to realize my goal thanks to all of you who had time to help me out with that. Thank you all!
<TRS-80>
Werner: Referring to oneself as 'Moxie Marlinspike' was immediate initial turn off for me (this was years ago). Also being involved (early history) with/in big companies is a big red flag. But I been slowly reading about the guy and apparently he been doing a lot of actual F/LOSS work and contribution. Also I strongly disagree in using phone number based ID (Signal? I think) but even I must
<TRS-80>
concede his point that makes it easier for normies to use (as evidenced by my own statement on lack of uptake, above). Like I said, slowly warming up to the guy / protocol / etc. I do keep looking into it. At time I did research and set up XMPP server (several years ago now) things were different. And it "just works" since then. I do try and keep abreast, but it's not as pressing when you
<TRS-80>
have already working solution.
<TRS-80>
Cheers stipa
<stipa>
TRS-80: :)
<Werner>
Was just a question :)
<TRS-80>
Well, I felt like expanding my reasoning. I rarely come to any conclusions (much less strong ones) without a tremendous amount of research and thought. FWIW. I really do need to start a blog instead of putting such responses in IRC. LOL
<Werner>
We could create a club for that :P "TRS80's corner for for-irc-too-long-answers-on-simple-questions" :D
<TRS-80>
I love and contribute to Armbian, but I also believe (even more strongly) in self hosting somehting like a blog. Besides, my idiotic ramblings may at some point not agree with the project, create controvercial political drama, etc. and I prefer to keep that sort of heat confined on myself.
<TRS-80>
:)
<TRS-80>
but thanks
<Werner>
you're welcome
<TRS-80>
On that front, and thanks to lanefu, I finally did register account at Sourcehut to start putting up some of my own code. https://git.sr.ht/~trs-80 TA-DA!
<TRS-80>
just yesterday in fact
<cpu0-on-fire>
TRS-80: hah, your nick made me think of the old trs80 computer :p my uncle has one with a broken speaker that is a bit buggy but runs still
<TRS-80>
cpu0-on-fire: Yes, one of my first experiences with a computer in elementary school. :) And hence the moniker.
<cpu0-on-fire>
it was still able to make some noise even if its slightly buggy
<TRS-80>
nice :)
<TRS-80>
Name has been a good choice in tech circles, IRC, etc. as I often receive similar sort of warm nostalgic greeting, this often works in my favor. :)
<cpu0-on-fire>
:)
<stipa>
i'm not that old, when i was a kid intel 386 and 486 were the thing
<stipa>
snes
<stipa>
game boy
<stipa>
ninties
<stipa>
seaga was a rarity
<stipa>
sega*
<stipa>
just nintendo stuff
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<TRS-80>
Ontopic (for a change, lol): Anyone can tell me why ODROID-XU4 stable is still on 4.x kernel? I mean, I can infer some reasons (stability, etc.) but struggle to find specifics.
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<stipa>
arch linux is on 5.9.9 kerned, did a n update a moment ago
<cpu0-on-fire>
arch follows mainline
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<stipa>
yeah
<TRS-80>
I can get mainline here, but it is considered dev and I take that to heart there is some reason for it
<TRS-80>
The "why" is what I was curious about.
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<stipa>
yeah, some problems come up fro mtime to time
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<stipa>
not really for stability
<stipa>
i wouldn't server with that anything to the public
<stipa>
serve*
<TRS-80>
I also don't think other (general) distros (like Arch, Debian proper, etc.) have anywhere near the level of understanding of these boards as Armbian. Hence why I stick strongly to Armbian for SBC.
<cpu0-on-fire>
well arch isn't meant for extreme stability
<DigitalMan1983_9>
hey guys, when a fix is discovered, what is the best way to submit it so that it can be incorprated into the next build
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<cpu0-on-fire>
it is, most of the time, but small breakages can occure
<TRS-80>
Even though just homelab, and for friends/family, I consider my little boxen as "in production" in a way, so I stick to stable. :)
<TRS-80>
DigitalMan1983_9: What sort of fix?
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<DigitalMan1983_9>
dts overlay to enable analog audio
<TRS-80>
on what board?
<DigitalMan1983_9>
Lime-A64
<DigitalMan1983_9>
I posted the resolution to the JIRA ticket and marked it done
<TRS-80>
Actually that is probably even better, what you already did
<DigitalMan1983_9>
ok cool
<stipa>
cpu0-on-fire: yeah, most of the time it's stable.
<TRS-80>
but see thread if it applies
<TRS-80>
Or ask IgorPec now :)
<stipa>
DigitalMan1983_9: try to ask here #armbian-devel
<TRS-80>
DigitalMan1983_9: Also, good work, mate! :)
<DigitalMan1983_9>
thanks :)
<Tonymac32>
I need to test Arch, I have a specific condition that kills the XU4/exynos devices
<TRS-80>
Tonymac32: You referring to 5.x?
<Tonymac32>
to answer your question TRS-80, I'd say 5.x is 95% stable
<TRS-80>
5% is a lot to someone with a brain like mine :D
<Tonymac32>
so the overwhelming majority of people aren't going to see a problem with it. I have, and a few others have under specific high-CPU high disk I/O situations
<Tonymac32>
so Arch might have never come across a problem ,or perhaps they have the magic key for that
<TRS-80>
I really appreciate that detailed response
<Tonymac32>
or it's fixed, I haven't tested since 5.4
<TRS-80>
infact I may shere the info in a forum post, assuming you don't mind
<Tonymac32>
your results may vary, I need to test it again
<TRS-80>
Not holding you to anything. I'm just curious. And I like to spread news. But if you don't want, I won't. I just thought others may be wondering same question too.
<TRS-80>
Because it was been like that for a while (on 4.x I mean). I been wondering for some time.
<TRS-80>
no rush ofc, just saying I been wondering about it for a while
<TRS-80>
try to look around forums but could not seem to find much specifics
<Tonymac32>
Right. Mainline on any big.LITTLE setups with DMC's seems to be more failure prone than others.
<TRS-80>
_ Memory Controller?
<TRS-80>
DMC?
<TRS-80>
dedicated?
<Tonymac32>
"Dynamic". so memory frequency shifting, the voltage switching of the PMIC not settling in time,
<Tonymac32>
etc etc
<Tonymac32>
the number of moving parts in this case is substantial
<Tonymac32>
the 2 clusters are often independant, but the drivers don't always assume so properly
<stipa>
my network subsystem crashed badly on arch machine few days ago but update to the newset kernel solved it... That was the only problem and it's on non stop for a month or so...
<TRS-80>
what else are some other DMC devices (also just curious)?
<Tonymac32>
RK3399, also has phantom instabilities
<Tonymac32>
also is big.LITTLE
<Tonymac32>
RK3328 has a DMC but is not a mixed core SoC
<TRS-80>
interesting
<Tonymac32>
I don't think we see any issues there
<TRS-80>
yes there again it's been literally years before being declared stable (and only somewhat recently, too, if I am not mistaken)
<Tonymac32>
(after I found the custom Firefly RAM timings anyway :| )
* TRS-80
facepalm
<Tonymac32>
well RK3328 mainline support was trash
<Tonymac32>
it has a goofy HDMI configuration, etc
<Tonymac32>
the last "good" mainline support from Rockchip came with RK3288, the RK3399 was alright but with some bugs
<Tonymac32>
They have been picking up again, and some work by third parties is getting interesting
<TRS-80>
Yes I gathered for quite some time RK3288 seemed much more stable, where RK3399 seemed to take much longer to get there. Especially frustrating with how exciting the hardware seemed (still seems, infact).
<[TheBug]>
AR-541
<ArmbianHelper>
AR-541 [Story] "Olinuxino Lime-A64 Headphone Output Not Detected" reported by Adam Fancher at 2020-11-17. Status: In Progress
<[TheBug]>
<Tonymac32> RK3399, also has phantom instabilities -- such as? I haven't seen any yet running Linux rockpi-4c 5.8.6-rockchip64 #20.08.1 SMP PREEMPT Thu Sep 3 18:03:42 CEST 2020 aarch64 aarch64 aarch64 GNU/Linux
<[TheBug]>
actually that may not be fully true
<[TheBug]>
I do end up with a tainted message from nfsd I think
<[TheBug]>
Tonymac32: anything in specific to keep an eye out for?
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<Tonymac32>
I said "Phantom" for a reason. There are quite a few discussions here and there about tweaking voltages and modifying parameters like the PMIC ramp times due to kernel crashes. I haven't had issues myself, but haven't pushed an RK3399 like I have the XU4
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<TRS-80>
stipa: I just notice you connect via Tor, nice!
* TRS-80
tips tin foil hat
<stipa>
yeah, i was searchin for "unaffiliated" mask on #freenode or something like that and noone noticed me, so remembered tor and freenode supports it so i got it working with weechat.
<stipa>
the connection from tor to freenode breaks often but it works
<stipa>
it breaks at least once per 24 hours
<stipa>
but weechat reconnects it automatically
<stipa>
wechat is running inside of the tmux
<stipa>
on armbian machine
<TRS-80>
I am behind 7 boxxies, so it shows as regular IP address (if I did not have Armbian staff cloak). But I remember having to set up same SASL rigamorole like Tor essentially.
<stipa>
TRS-80: wow 7 machines is massive
<TRS-80>
stipa: I'm memeing
<stipa>
how's your lag doing?
<TRS-80>
it's just an expression
<TRS-80>
a meme
<stipa>
7 boxxies ?
<TRS-80>
yes
<stipa>
what does that mean?
<TRS-80>
but I am behind (1 or more) proxies
<stipa>
right, than your behind proxies and a freenode cloak
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<TuxBlackEdo>
I am trying to compile armbian (./compile.sh from https://github.com/armbian/build) and I select that I want to show the kernel menuconfig because I wanted to enable a driver, it asks what I should save my config as. I was wondering what I name it for the compile.sh process to accept the new kernel menuconfig?
<TRS-80>
Hi TuxBlackEdo
<TuxBlackEdo>
Hi :D
<TRS-80>
Good question. I dunno the answer. Hang a bit and maybe someone else does.
<TRS-80>
OK, so you can interact with some PR without needing the web UI, in other words
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<TRS-80>
sry wrong channel
<TRS-80>
TuxBlackEdo: just a guess, but did you try just hitting enter or whatever is default?
<TuxBlackEdo>
yeah I think that did it
<TRS-80>
it did? lol
<TuxBlackEdo>
yeah it saves it as ".config"
<TRS-80>
t. level 30 supreme wizard
<TuxBlackEdo>
before i tried to name it something like "custom.config"
<TRS-80>
nice WAG
<TuxBlackEdo>
it does say (after you get out of menuconfig) "[ o.k. ] Exporting new kernel config [ /home/peter/build/output/config/linux-rockchip-current.config ]"
<TRS-80>
FWIW, I have tried to penetrate the config script on more than one occasion, and never made too much progress.
<TRS-80>
usually in a hurry to help someone though, I guess I need to really study it some time
<TRS-80>
TuxBlackEdo: OK, so it sounds like dynamically generating some file name based on target, etc.
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<stipa>
man, i just had a cold solder ball on a USB wifi card that runs my AP.
<stipa>
on a main chip
<stipa>
ubelivable
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<stipa>
i splashed some homemade flux and reheated the chip and it's like new now :D
<TRS-80>
nice
<stipa>
yeah, i'm back i nthe game
<stipa>
TRS-80: did you record any of your songs?
<TRS-80>
Songs? Are you thinking of DigitalMan1983_ ? :)
<stipa>
hmm, i think you said that you're a songwriter?
<stipa>
my bad
<TRS-80>
no not me :) I'm a computer beep boop beep
<stipa>
ups, sorry
<TRS-80>
np man
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* TRS-80
retrieves a frozen mug from the freezer behind the bar, dispenses a drought and slides it down the bar at lanefu
<lanefu>
sounds much tastier than the kombucha i drank
<TRS-80>
:D
<TRS-80>
but worse for you probably
<TRS-80>
I dunno though :D
* TRS-80
is most of way through writing README
<TRS-80>
put up loicense today, FeelsGoodMan.jpg
<lanefu>
noice
<TRS-80>
I am kind of excited about mailing list for every little project, as setting up Mailman is sort of one of pain in but things that therefore usually is not done until a project becomes bigger. But now I can have a separate one for every little pet project if I want. Just awesome!