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<rneese> ok what flaw in the n2+
* archetech has no prob with n2+ nic on arch
<archetech> runs away
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<DarthGandalf> archetech: ok, but which kernel, and how do you configure network there?
<archetech> exec command inxi -SMN
<archetech> gnome uses NMgr
<archetech> brb
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<c0rnelius> If you're using the board headless you could just Purge network manager. But before doing so make sure you have if up down installed and networking and all that other business
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<c0rnelius> NetworkManager is garbage unless ur running a desktop or say a laptop.
<c0rnelius> Just my opinion of course somebody else may differ.
<stipa> i don't use it
<c0rnelius> I only run it on my laptop
<c0rnelius> Well and a few test images for the Raspberry Pi 4 but that doesn't really count
<stipa> that config file of networking.service has no logic to me
<lanefu> Yeah networking.service is confusing.
<lanefu> I like systemd-networkd for simple headless devices
<lanefu> But generally I feel network manager is a sane default for armbian
<stipa> it's fast and easy, yeah
<c0rnelius> nothing easier than setting up interfaces and wpa_suplicant
<lanefu> My biggest beef with modern distro networking is resolvconf and resolver
<c0rnelius> Yes some distros prefer open resolve where others just will just go with resolv.conf
<Unit193> systemd-resolved usually likes to break my DNS, openresolv is useful if you use wireguard with the 'DNS' option.
<lanefu> Those local resolves piss me off so bad
<lanefu> Messes up my local dns and search path
<stipa> c0rnelius: its cool if you come across of Armbian for the first time, it's easy to connect to network using 'armbian-config'
<c0rnelius> I have never had a single good experience using armbian and connecting to a network.
<c0rnelius> As a matter of fact I usually Purge network manager right away
<stipa> ha ha
<c0rnelius> And if I was to be a critic I would suggest that during builds they should give you the choice
<TRS-80> I have never experiecned any issues? But then everything I run is headless Debian.
<c0rnelius> That's most of what I run is headless Debian
<c0rnelius> Network manager is just sketchy
<TRS-80> NM os on there? I never even noticed.
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<TRS-80> I'm almost done with my first pass on these Docs, I guess once I push up to my GitHub then you guys can see them, amirite?
<lanefu> c0rnelius: what trouble do you have? Dhcp? Wifi? Host config? Dns?
<TRS-80> I suppose I might appreciate some early feedback before doing a PR to Armbian proper.
<lanefu> TRS-80: the purpose of a PR is feedback
<TRS-80> I know. But, you know... ;)
<lanefu> Itll be okay... lol
<TRS-80> hold me
<rneese> everyone is fired hand over your boards
<stipa> lanefu: dhcpd is crashing
<stipa> that's what i noticed
<rneese> stipa what board and build
<rneese> have you run a update
<lanefu> Interesting
<rneese> lanefu, how far did you get with the le patato
<stipa> Host: orangepilite2 Kernel: 5.7.15-sunxi64 aarch64
<stipa> aalarm has also problems
<stipa> alarm*
<stipa> 32bit arch
<stipa> also
<rneese> that could be a pkg issue that old
<stipa> who knows
<rneese> when did you last update
<stipa> it's just crashing networks like crazy
<lanefu> Boil it
<rneese> lanefu, no boiling the patato we need it for testing
<c0rnelius> lanefu: Doesn't always connect.
<lanefu> Wired or wifi?
<c0rnelius> Wifi - Like i get it if ur pushing desktop, it makes sense. Been on Amrbian headless images this isn't needed and is just a problem.
<c0rnelius> but*
<stipa> lanefu: i have 5.8.9 flashed but i'm t lazy to do transition...
<stipa> i'm just using dhclient for now
<rneese> hmmm
<stipa> it's ok
<lanefu> stipa: update armbian-firmware package too
<stipa> to be honest i'm afraid to do upgrades
<stipa> ha ha
<lanefu> rneese: tater booted I gave you status in dev channel earlier
<stipa> updates
<lanefu> stipa: I'll be honest I dont blame you at all
<stipa> right
<stipa> i'll do all of those
<stipa> soon
<rneese> did lightdm start
<rneese> or did x fail
<rneese> I missed
<lanefu> rneese: desktop launched after I finished first login stuff
<c0rnelius> what next? netplan.io and lets really make it super tarded.
<rneese> hmm mine did nto I had to dpkg-reconfigure lightdm
<rneese> and it worked
<lanefu> c0rnelius: easy man
<c0rnelius> easier the than etc/network/interfaces and /etc/wpa*/wpa*
<c0rnelius> sure
<rneese> in armbian-config goto networking
<rneese> select wifi
<rneese> it works
<c0rnelius> my point is that it is not reliable.
<lanefu> i meant take it easy
<lanefu> but i kind of dig netplan
<c0rnelius> oh
<lanefu> it's what cloud-init uses typically
<c0rnelius> alright
<c0rnelius> yah
<c0rnelius> I can only speak from my own experiences. I'm sure it varies.
<rneese> well the xorg.conf works on the n2/n2+ but faisl patato
<rneese> ook
<TRS-80> OK, I split the Recovery stuff to it's own page now (and polished it up): https://github.com/TRSx80/armbian-documentation/blob/master/docs/User-Guide_Recovery.md
<rneese> did you rm the xorg.conf.d/02-driver .conf file
<rneese> smile
<lanefu> rneese:yeah i thought I disalbled it
<rneese> ok
<rneese> just asking
<rneese> IgorPec, confirmed the terminal ghosting on the n2
<lanefu> i do have a cool netplan example that i use for setting up my build server.... sets up lacp and and some vlans and bridges http://ix.io/2Ec9
<rneese> so i was not the only one having it
<lanefu> TRS-80: cool lemme know when yuo open the PR so i can better see whats changed
<TRS-80> OK will do. Just adding more polish now.
<lanefu> rneese: youre not alone lol
<c0rnelius> netplan is trash!
<c0rnelius> they do say its the future though... they also said that about Trump. ;)
<c0rnelius> bahzing!
<rneese> well I know the c4 should also be supported
<rneese> but I need to find someone with one
<c0rnelius> I have a c4
<c0rnelius> whats you u need?
<rneese> well I will build a img
<rneese> have you load it and then need you to rm 1 file and put 1 file in place
<rneese> need to test a xorg.conf on c4 and video on youtube and display ghosting
<rneese> but I need time to build the img
<rneese> if you dont mind
<c0rnelius> rneese: just let me know and shoot me the link and info.
<rneese> ok
<rneese> building img now
<c0rnelius> uboot ur flashing is sd?
<rneese> sd card for now
<c0rnelius> k
<c0rnelius> just curious... using HK or ML?
<rneese> armbin desktop builder
<c0rnelius> K. I think that's that HK.
<c0rnelius> Sounds good. I'm all up for testing.
<rneese> ok
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<rneese> let you know when its ready
<c0rnelius> Yes sir
<rneese> its building now
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<TRS-80> lanefu: OK have at it
<rneese> i have to fix something lanefu is it current dev or whats the kernel branck for c4 ?
<rneese> I just got a error building the kernel
<lanefu> rneese: always assume --current for your projects
<rneese> ok
<rneese> hmmm
<rneese> c4 kernel fails
<lanefu> rneese: try disablin extrawifi or run with KERNEL_CONFIGURE=yes alternately
<rneese> nott good
<rneese> ok
<rneese> never done this
<lanefu> TRS-80: I like your choice of "Recovery" in lieu of "Unfucking your System"
<rneese> I have a fix brb
<lanefu> rneese: often happens after kernel stuffs
<TRS-80> I did added a little humanity in the very beginning though. :D I think it's worth making people think to take a breath and have a laugh.
<TRS-80> Especially under the circumstances one would be reading it.
<lanefu> TRS-80: only feedback is see if there's a way to preserve the "#how to troubleshoot" lik from the original advanced features to the new page
<lanefu> I've never done it before, but i tihnk mkdocs has some magic for adding some mappings lik e that
<lanefu> basically in the case that we have some links to that page already, i'd rathe rthem work
<lanefu> if its an epic PITA don't sweat it, but nice to have if it's managable
<TRS-80> Not sure I'm following you.
<TRS-80> Hang on let me look / think
<c0rnelius> rneese: just in case, msg me over at armbian with the link and info I need - https://forum.armbian.com/profile/10116-cornelius/
<c0rnelius> I'll get back to you
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<c0rnelius> I live in FL... webs don't always stay connected here.
<TRS-80> lanefu: Oh I think I follow you. To automagically remap the old link, right? I'll need to look into that (but worth knowing, IMO).
<TRS-80> OK right
<rneese> FL the STate of the sinking land mass and where old people go to retire
<TRS-80> lanefu: I think we need another plugin: https://pypi.org/project/mkdocs-redirects/
<TRS-80> As https://github.com/mkdocs/mkdocs/issues/45 seems to indicate they are not interested in that functionality in core.
<TRS-80> I can do another PR?
<TRS-80> Or how do you want?
<rneese> ok
<lanefu> TRS-80: just push update to same branch
<lanefu> PR will refresh automagically
<lanefu> k don't sweat it i guess
<TRS-80> just another regular commit and push up to my repo, right?
<TRS-80> It's no trouble.
<TRS-80> I didn't make a branch for this you know. Does the PR still update automagically in that case?
<rneese> lanefu, if you get time retest the patato
<rneese> just for a 2nd test
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<lanefu> TRS-80: well technically it's a branch
<lanefu> since its another repo
<TRS-80> Researching further, it appears that plugin does not support heading redirection, only whole pages. Research continues...
<TRS-80> If you say so
<lanefu> TRS-80: yeah i mean i think you've gone beyond call of duty for looking for redirect
<TRS-80> :)
<lanefu> anyway yes, as soon as you push, the PR will reflect latest diff
<TRS-80> No, I don't like broken links either. In fact that had occurred to me already...
<TRS-80> We could always do it the old fashioned way (moved [here])
<lanefu> TRS-80: just do i the poor mans way.. leave old heading in place and just put a moved thing
<lanefu> yep!
<lanefu> great likes thing a mind
<lanefu> s/thing/think
<ArmbianHelper> lanefu meant to say: great likes think a mind
<TRS-80> It's worth looking for a few more minutes. If I can't find something, then I will do that.
<lanefu> TRS-80: so i do have some other feedback
<lanefu> and i'm not sur eow to frame it in the doc
<TRS-80> OK?
<lanefu> but mostly want to point out that newer armbian images default to using UUID for root in both fstab and for u-boot via armbianEnv.txt or `boot.ini` for those SBCs comming the boot.ini crime
<lanefu> obviosly the block stuff works
<lanefu> but was wondering if it could create confusion
<lanefu> but always couldt figure out how to articulate where confusion would occur
<TRS-80> OK so we are talking in the "replacing /boot" case, Amirite?
<lanefu> yes
<lanefu> so yeah btw howd you write u-boot when you did that
<lanefu> curious how that differed from mine
<lanefu> or if it just needed to be done again for some reason
<TRS-80> I ended up having to dd it
<lanefu> i guess i should read your doc
<TRS-80> No, that part is not even in there yet
<lanefu> weird.. as thats exactly what i did
<lanefu> and you saw the new u-boot
<lanefu> in the deubg
<TRS-80> Right. I am not sure
<lanefu> whichi file did you dd?
<lanefu> maybe i did the wrong one
<TRS-80> Latest stable matching OS that was on the sdcard
<TRS-80> Although they shouldn't be that different, if at all. But who knows.
<lanefu> you dd'd blocks from 1 image to another?
<TRS-80> Now I dd an actual file I extract out from the u-boot deb pkg
<lanefu> or a u-boot.bin blob
<TRS-80> yes
<lanefu> remember what it was called?
<lanefu> or are you tired of this interrogation
* lanefu turns lamp on bright
<TRS-80> gimme sec and Ill look
<lanefu> where were you that night?
<lanefu> have you seen this file before
<rneese> lights out everybody lights out
<TRS-80> lol
<lanefu> give me a name
<lanefu> GIVE ME A NAME
<rneese> goober
<TRS-80> I don't know nothing man
* lanefu turns light off
<lanefu> you can right in here for all i care
<lanefu> *rot
<lanefu> jokefail
<lanefu> really method-chatting
<rneese> Shout out my name Sebastian Shout out my name
<lanefu> i suppose
<lanefu> hahaha
* TRS-80 trying to remember which disk I wrote things to, they all been shuffled around now
<lanefu> honestly its probably in your xu4 CLI history right?
<rneese> learn to label them young man
<lanefu> perhaps a barcode system and document in visicalc
<lanefu> rneese: you got an image or me to pull?
<rneese> for the le patato I will make one
<rneese> when this img finishes
<TRS-80> lanefu: it was the bin "with-whatever" is that what you want to know?
<TRS-80> exact name escapes me atm (but I can keep looking)
<lanefu> lvrp16: you ever put a few breadcrumbs of LOST in a repo?
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<TRS-80> lanefu: u-boot-sunxi-with-spl.bin from linux-u-boot-current-cubietruck_20.08.13_armhf.deb
<lvrp16> lanefu: LOST is a glorified bash script
<lvrp16> just rip apart the fit and download the script.
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<TRS-80> lanefu: Thinking more about UUIDs, we are in a recovery context here, with the sdcard (or whatever) out of the SBC and temp insert into Debian host for recovery. Therefore UUID don't really matter in this context?
<TRS-80> Only place it matters would be in ArmbianEnv.txt which we are not touching
<TRS-80> Other than that, old linke/headings are now restored. What else?
<rneese> c0rnelius, you here
<rneese> or you go to bed ?
<lanefu> lvrp16: oh duh lol yeah didn't think about that...
<lanefu> lvrp16: the important thing is i copy off your homework
<rneese> lol
<lvrp16> stop giving out my proprietary tech :)
<rneese> lanefu, waiting for your inmg to sync up to server
<lanefu> ha the plan is to make it much less useful
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<lanefu> TRS-80: you sound right. thanks for thinking through it
<lanefu> rneese: cool. I think i updated that cron to run every 3 minute instead of 5
<TRS-80> I realize something. We cannot recommend armbian-config here (to flash u-boot), as we are in a recovery context. And I am not sure how best direct people to find the information of what address to flash to. I mean, I know sunxi (now) but that is only one board?
<rneese> looks like its putting it up now
<TRS-80> I guess I need to look at armbian-config and see how that figures out where to write, and somehow do something with that. But not tonight probably.
<TRS-80> I mean, interpret that into some manual method.
<TRS-80> I'm calling it a night. Cheers!
<TRS-80> lanefu: I think those PR are ready to go though. Anything else? Well I guess just put it in the PR and I'll look tomorrow or Monday or ...
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<rneese> ok lanefu it looks to be up
<rneese> ok gn guys
<rneese> chat tomorrow
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<rneese> lanefu, there is a n2 img there also
<rneese> gn
<lanefu> cya
<archetech> derp
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<Werner> Good morning
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<Tony_mac32> good morning
<Tony_mac32> bought some hi-tech wrenches https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07V43NCC1
<Tony_mac32> I was honestly hoping for some EIDE ones, but no luck, they quit making them some time ago
<Werner> Reasonable
<Werner> No NVMe ones?
<Tony_mac32> seriously though these are made in the same shop that makes most gear-wrench branded ones, so they're most likely quite nice
<Tony_mac32> and no lol
<Tony_mac32> I tried to buy a freezer in March when mine broke. Come August it had not been delivered, demanded a refund
<Tony_mac32> apparently people decided the end of the world was an important time to have a freezer to use with all that electricity the apocalypse has so much of
* Tony_mac32 looks over at electric car owners
<Tony_mac32> ;)
<Tony_mac32> in any case, and jokes aside, I just ordered another one ,so let's see
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<igraltist> hi
<igraltist> to whom goes a kernel panic report for nanopi m4?
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<ArmbianTwitter> @NicolasPoirie19 (Nicolas Poirier): @jiribrejcha @digiwill It is a H3. I deployed the armbian image for it and just git clone and adapt the fpms code to it. Works like a charm :) Still a bit of work to do to install all the tools and it will be ready as a spare for my NEO2 (11s ago)
<ArmbianTwitter> @NicolasPoirie19 (Nicolas Poirier): @jiribrejcha @digiwill *Not really adapt, but just enable i2c (within armbian-config), and install requirements (Python 3.7 and other packages) (13s ago)
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<rneese> my n2+starship runnig deepin desktop
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<stipa> n2= has six cores, nice
<stipa> n2+ *
<TRS-80> Good morning frens!
<stipa> Good almost evening
<TRS-80> I was watching some NicoD video about all his different boards, one was powerful but had bad IO like shared USB or something, was that (regular) N2? So many boards, some times I mix them up...
<stipa> i think this night of mine will be filled with few new episodes of Mandalorian
<TRS-80> Aah, a man of taste I see. :)
* TRS-80 needs to re-flash Kodi, etc. on living room RPi
<TRS-80> s/s man/a fellow man/
<ArmbianHelper> TRS-80 thinks lanefu meant to say: if its an epic PITA don't sweat it, but nice to have if it'a fellow managable
<TRS-80> lolwut
<TRS-80> s/a man/a fellow man/
<ArmbianHelper> TRS-80 meant to say: Aah, a fellow man of taste I see. :)
<TRS-80> there
<stipa> rneese: there's something wrong with your second link
<rneese> go to 3rd one
<Tony_mac32> haha
<rneese> its a typo i hit i where it should have been j
<Tony_mac32> the N2 falcon with that arm hanging off the side
<stipa> TRS-80: thanks bro
<rneese> lol
<rneese> thats the 4 port usb hub
<stipa> oh
<stipa> it's glued, i see
<rneese> double sided tape
<stipa> i use 3m stuff
<rneese> yes
<stipa> just a sec
<rneese> I used gorilla double side tape
<stipa> 3M dual lock
<rneese> ok
<stipa> it'ss awesome
<rneese> but the hub opens it so I have 3 usp 3 borts avaible
<rneese> now I need a 128g emmc and it will be finished
<stipa> cool
<rneese> since the n2 does not have nvme
<rneese> but figure just show it to people
<stipa> oh
<TRS-80> double sided tape is one of those areas where you can't go cheap/generic
<stipa> nice job
<rneese> its a targus 4 port mini hub
<TRS-80> t. person who prefers cheap / generic
<stipa> right. with some things you can't go cheap
* TRS-80 thoughts drift to cheap Chinese knockoff HifiBerry AMP2 that arrived a while back and still untested
<stipa> i saw cherrypi somewhere
<stipa> a board, on some chinese website
<stipa> can't remember how i got there
<TRS-80> lol
<stipa> but i posted link here, maybe someone could search through the logs...
<TRS-80> if you use Firefox, history is in an sqlite db
<stipa> oh, right, i'll try in chrome
<TRS-80> you could also grep in logs as you said
<TRS-80> that was quick
<stipa> hehe
<stipa> you have hacked it
<TRS-80> amp I was referring to not an exact knock off, just similar functionality
<stipa> oh, hifi berry is a shield
<TRS-80> yes, with a DAC + and 2x?W amp
<TRS-80> maybe 50-60 total iirc
<TRS-80> so 2x25 or something
<TRS-80> well, they make a whole line, some DAC only but AMP2 also has an amp
<stipa> it's enough watts
<TRS-80> Yes, plenty. Sounds pretty good with some decent cheap speakers (Dayton Audio FTW!) :)
<TRS-80> Very good stuff. But, a little pricey for what it is. Hence me seeking alternatives. No idea hoe they compare (yet).
<TRS-80> s/hoe/how
<ArmbianHelper> TRS-80 meant to say: Very good stuff. But, a little pricey for what it is. Hence me seeking alternatives. No idea how they compare (yet).
<TRS-80> why is "Sweet Cheeyy Pie" playing in my head
<stipa> TRS-80: audio tech is oke now, you shouldn't get wrong with anything really
<TRS-80> you scream I scream we all scream for her
<stipa> go*
<TRS-80> That's sort of what I figured. I mean how hard can it be? I don't buy into most of "audiphile" bs
<stipa> it's bullshit yes
<stipa> but there is also bad things
<TRS-80> you mean actual bad audio? I agree
<stipa> yeah
<stipa> bad mix of hardware
<TRS-80> lots in fact (i.e., most consumer crap, sound bars, etc.)
<stipa> like great amp with crappy speakers
<TRS-80> right
<TRS-80> I stumbled upon few guys doing audio reviews of inexpensive gear a few years back and now that's my go to
<stipa> consumer stuff has hyped lows
<stipa> fake*
<TRS-80> Guys like ZeosPanterra, and there are couple others. Can recommend!
<stipa> oh
<TRS-80> That's where I learned of Dayton Audio. Love those cheap little speakers!
<stipa> Frequency response: 85-20,000 Hz
<TRS-80> Those are baby ones, the B652 sound even better but are slightly bigger (6" 'woofer')
<TRS-80> stipa: Is that good or bad? lol
<stipa> yea, more bass
<stipa> you want
<stipa> as low as physics allow
<TRS-80> I mean, they are small speakers.
<TRS-80> exactly
<stipa> yeah, the bigger the cone the low they go
<stipa> more bass and subs you get
<stipa> ideally you want something that can reproduce 30Hz or so
<TRS-80> I don't care too much about bass. Also generally they recommend building up your system in steps, like get 2 front, then a sub later, etc...
<TRS-80> They say you are better doing that than getting a "sound bar" (meme) and I have become convinced of that
<stipa> right
<stipa> you can combine speakers
<TRS-80> yes
<TRS-80> from different mfr even
<stipa> each play different frequency range
<stipa> right
<stipa> different manufacturers
<stipa> your goal is to get flat frequency response
<stipa> in the actual air
<stipa> because your ears will pick that
<TRS-80> And with some cheap speakers, some SBC, and some HiFiBerry (or equivalent) you have the makings of your very own GNU/Linux based multi-room audio system (i.e., Sonos, but without hight price and vendor lock-in)
<stipa> right
<TRS-80> stipa: They also talk about positioning, etc. Applying actualy good principles, just without all the $20K bs.
<stipa> i guess you could do crossovers in actual DSP* inside of the Linux
<rneese> ok bbiab
<TRS-80> Few of those guys got together and went to one of these hoity toity audiophile expos a few years back, rented a hotel room (many people chipped in) and displayed lots of cheap solution and minds were blown. LOL
<stipa> it's cheap now but in the beginning very hard tzo realize, tech got cheap
<stipa> we really can't complain anymore
<TRS-80> Yes. Some people (coughboomerscough) still haven't realized that.
<stipa> everything is perfect
<stipa> it's hard to realize
<TRS-80> I try to even question my own assumptions from time to time
<stipa> it's easier to be a marketing parrot on a loop then know that stuff
<TRS-80> Not all the time, but every so often. :)
<stipa> it's hard
<stipa> especially if you listen to people
<stipa> you have constantly to stear yourself
<stipa> to the right direction
<stipa> many times i just go my way
<TRS-80> Aah the willpower. And conscius thought! Perish the thought!
<stipa> and it ends as the right one
<stipa> tought creates
<stipa> thought*
<stipa> without thought we're just animals
<TRS-80> in the beginning there was the word
* TRS-80 is not even particularly religious
<stipa> the sound
<stipa> the wave
<TRS-80> vibration
<stipa> yeah
<TRS-80> frequency
<stipa> right
<stipa> movement
<TRS-80> OK I better start working on something before we go down the rabbit hole of "the world as hologram" and/or quantum phyusics
<stipa> right
<stipa> let's leave that to professionals
<TRS-80> :D
<TRS-80> I'd rather not ;)
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<stipa> it's wise to stop at some moment
<TRS-80> Well I enjoy the conersation. And I like you. :) But it's a rabbit hole for sure.
<stipa> going to deep may lead to insanity
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<TRS-80> The eagle that flies high only looks small from the perspective of those on the ground.
<TRS-80> Meaning (in this context) diminishing returns of going down rabbit holes, as very few people will be following along (although you among them, I feel).
<stipa> but, if you're rich and insane everyone will follow you :D
<stipa> if you're poor, not many will go in rabiit hole with you
<TRS-80> but that is the way of the material world (i.e., le demiurge, etc.) the false world
<TRS-80> hence popularity not being a reliable metric for anything (argumentum ad populum, etc.)
<stipa> i guess it always has been
<TRS-80> necessarily
<TRS-80> ancient Greek (forget who now) said "there is nothing new in the world"
<stipa> different combinations of stuff that's already here with us
<TRS-80> Yes. I studied Western Civ, history, philosophy, etc. and all characters in every story are all based on same handful of archetypes. All stories just recycled old ones. But you don't realize that unless you study a lot of what some people think are "old, boring" things.
<TRS-80> Some tech have changed. But human nature has not. Not in thousands of years.
<TRS-80> (maybe 10s or more thousands)
<TRS-80> who knows
<stipa> right
<stipa> at the end wee al just die
<stipa> and turn into a dust
<stipa> back to the earth
<stipa> mother earth
<TRS-80> Our physical body, yes. But our consciousness, I think we get recycled back into the one consciousness (or something). Perhaps re-incarnated into a descendent. That is what the ancients believed anyway.
<TRS-80> The whole "you are an insiginficant speck of dust on a rok hurtling arround the sun" IMO is just propaganda by TPTB to keep people from realizing their actual potential
<TRS-80> difference, as you began this conversation, is consciousness
<TRS-80> which changes things quite a lot
<stipa> it's emotional manipulation
<TRS-80> yes just more FUD, designed to keep everyone feeling alone, sad, insignificant, etc.
<TRS-80> wouldn't want anyone questioning their masters, now would we? :)
<TRS-80> Recognizing at the same time that there is legitimate authority in the world. But a whole lot of illegitemate (especially nowadays).
<stipa> i would say it's money
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<stipa> money is the king of this world
<TRS-80> love of which is said to be the root of all evil
<stipa> as a mental entity
<TRS-80> it is king, in the material world
<stipa> yeah, people change
<stipa> when in love
<TRS-80> and we are living in a somewhat bad age, if you believe that sort of stuff (I kinda do)
<TRS-80> stipa: but yes, love, good and positive vibrations, can really change things
<TRS-80> I used to think all that sort of stuff was hokey, but no longer
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<TRS-80> the FUD is all about keeping negative and bad vibrations going, people are easier to rule over that way
<stipa> yeah
<stipa> unethical
<stipa> evil
<TRS-80> sprinkle in a little Divide & Conquer, and nothing will ever change
<TRS-80> good for those at the top of the established order ;)
<stipa> well, the problem is that people are unaware that without the people rulers are nothing.
<TRS-80> there have been decades, nay centuries (millennia?) of propaganda to make sure people don't forget it lol
<TRS-80> I mean, to make people forget, rather
<stipa> yeah, they work hard that people don't know that.
<TRS-80> Anyway so much for not going down rabbit holes. I'm so easily baited into them. Look, a squirrel! XD
<TRS-80> Not that you are baiting (I do it to musely). lol
<TRS-80> myself
<stipa> i'm just being polite
<stipa> and following along :D
<TRS-80> you're alright
<TRS-80> :)
<stipa> ha ha
<stipa> trying to survive, nothing else
<stipa> and i'm bad at it
<stipa> those are just insights i use in choices i make
<stipa> very usefule when scam is on the way
<stipa> today everyone scams, even governments
<stipa> police
<stipa> whoever
<stipa> it's very popular
<stipa> but i guess it's been around for a long time
<TRS-80> yep
* lanefu back on RockPi X w/ PopOS for desktop
* TRS-80 searches PopOS
<TRS-80> > Ubuntu-Based Distribution
<TRS-80> memes of memes :p
<TRS-80> lanefu: Back from what?
<lanefu> odroidn2 w/ armbian
<TRS-80> I been watching some NicoD videos, he's a real fan of... is it... Nano Pi M4V2 I think? For desktop usage I mean
<TRS-80> lanefu: Is that the one with not so good IO (like shared USB or something)?
<TRS-80> N2 I'm talking about
<lanefu> it doesn't like to power things from its bus
<lanefu> not an issue for my use case
<TRS-80> I should go back to that video. Anyway I'm sure there was some reason you went back to RockPi? Or you just changing things up?
<lanefu> nah i just borked it, and keep on needing to use it to test image sn stuff
<TRS-80> right lol
<TRS-80> musical SBCs then
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<lanefu> RockPi X isn't do anything anhything else.. already had OS installed.... just need something reliable while science performed elsewhere
<TRS-80> yeah I have gigantik x86 workstation with 203020PLP setup for that use case
<lanefu> it's funny because Odrodin2 w/ armbian totally feels faster than RockpiX w/ PopOS for desktop
<lanefu> I just need something with Linux on standby
<TRS-80> but I keep looking into this Armbian desktop usage with more and more interest, as this thing is essentially giant space heater
<lanefu> I have Displayport KVM for my work Macbook pro
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<TRS-80> any way to get triple monitor setup on Armbian? I would think have to do one of these cards with PCI available and discreet GPU, amirite?
* stipa wonders if Armbian will work on opn hardware RISC-V one day :/
<stipa> TRS-80: there are usb vga's i guess
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<TRS-80> probably would be good enough for side monitors, thanks stipa
<fromport> i am trying to compile lizardfs from source on armbian: barfs with this : https://termbin.com/20ao
<stipa> maybe you could find it cheaper if you can find out which chip is inside.
<fromport> can anything point out what is failing ? /me confused
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<TRS-80> stipa: Also, re: RISC-V, I had pretty high hopes for them too, but stuff I read from AOMA86 guy somewhat recently led me to believe they are just another "open in name only" meme riding on the opensource wave of popularity (unfortunately)
<fromport> the line 24 that barfs in "debian/rules" just reads: dh $@
<stipa> TRS-80: bummer
<TRS-80> They moved to POWER arch for the libreSOC (formerly libre RISC-V; https://libre-soc.org), as IBM recently actually quite opened up that ecosystem, apparently.
<stipa> may be the funded the project
<stipa> they*
<TRS-80> libre-soc getting a lot of funding from nlnet and others, it's a ways off but quite exciting if you care about actually libre things
<eduardas> hello, this might sound like a stupid question, but does it ever make sense to have more than one watchdog timer enabled on an embedded Linux system?
<eduardas> i.e. if I'm using an external watchdog IC, does it still make sense to use the one on the SoC?
<TRS-80> eduardas: I would say that's a pretty good question (and also I don't know the answer)
<TRS-80> fromport: I dunno (I just looked at your termbin), but hang out a bit and maybe someone else knows more
<stipa> TRS-80: yeah, POWER arch from NXP doesn't look to me like it's open hardware
<TRS-80> POWER arch is from IBM (the arch itself) doesn't mean implementer (NXP) can't make theirs not open. Also, this is somewhat recent development.
<stipa> oh
<stipa> yeah, sounds totally like broadcom
<eduardas> and if I decide to disable the the internal SoC watchdog, is it best to mark the watchdog disabled in devicetree entry or remove the module from kernel compilation defconfig and dtb entry entirely?
<eduardas> which sounds more proper?
<fromport> TRS-80: it might be running out of memory, it is doing -j8 because it has 8 processors, but only 2GB of ram. now trying -j2
<TRS-80> eduardas: I think these are quite specific questions, unless yo uget lucky catching someone here. you may actually get better (the correct) response from a forum post
<TRS-80> fromport: is there any RAM argument?
<fromport> TRS-80: not that I could find. I have 1GB of swap but don't actually saw it get used before it barfed
<TRS-80> also, I look up dh and found man debhelper... not sure that helps. Also "$@" means all arguments (in case you don't know a lot of bash)
<fromport> TRS-80: yeah, i know just enough to get myself in danger. but it is weird that it barfs in the general part of that build file oom condition seems appropriate
<fromport> okay, -j2 barfs at 14% not at 37% with the -j8, something is fishy
<TRS-80> stipa: Don't get me wrong. All corps are full of crap until proven otherwise. lol But it's not crazy if you think about it. POWER arch is only popular in very specific applications to my understanding (supercomputers, etc.). Sometimes it's a hail mary play to open something up (i.e., Mozilla). Plus IBM has solid history of actually understanding how opensourse business can work, they use and
<TRS-80> contribute a lot to it in fact. Therefore... potentially believable. But we will see...
<stipa> TRS-80: sounds interesting
<TRS-80> I thought so.
<TRS-80> Plus libre-soc is pushing for it. Whether IBM actually partner with them is another story. But apparently current guy in charge of opensource (or POWER) at IBM is someone that libre-soc / EOMA86 guy used to work with and they have apparently good relationship. Sometimes good things accidentally fall out from such relations. lol
<stipa> best friends and competitors
<TRS-80> It's only a matter of time until hardware gets opened up as software has, IMO. Of course it will take a long time still, there are many entrenched interests, but it is inevitable IMO. At least I like to hope. But I do what I can to push in that direction whenever possible.
<stipa> chips are not fro free unfortuanetely
<TRS-80> There is tons of IP garbage if you look into it. But same was true with software at some point. And look where we are today.
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<TRS-80> Thinking you can own ideas is just a dinosaur business model that doesn'y work. Just like the audiophile meme, Boomers just haven't realized it yet.
<stipa> yeah, it doesn't
<stipa> hardware designers will just use something open because it's cheap and they know ahat they're actually doing.
<stipa> know what*
<TRS-80> We are all standing on the shoulders of giants. For millenia science advanced by sharing information, each advance coming atop what came before. Then suddenly in last few decades, we have handfull of oligarchs that think they can actually "own" knowledge itself. It's staggeringly obnoxious and full of hubris when you think about and put into longer historical perspective.
<stipa> right
<stipa> greedy motherfuckers
<TRS-80> People think we live in "free markets" but what is required to enforce so called "IP" laws? Lots of people with badges, guns, court houses and jails, etc. Now is that a free market? Or a state sanctioned monopoly for a very few people?
<TRS-80> ...to the detriment of society and almost everyone else, I forgot to add...
<ArmbianHelper> .to the detriment of society and almost everyone else, I forgot to add... [en~>eng]
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<stipa> TRS-80: whoever pays most taxes wins
<TRS-80> these people don't pay takes, only the middle class pay taxes lol
<TRS-80> s/takes/taxes
<ArmbianHelper> TRS-80 meant to say: these people don't pay taxes, only the middle class pay taxes lol
<archetech> the outword which trs speaks abundantly of but never speaks of the inward issues hmm
<TRS-80> oO
<TRS-80> I have you to point out my flaws archetech ;)
<TRS-80> Also we talking a lot of philosophy, you think it's possible without looking inward? Anyway, not sure what you getting at exactly?
<archetech> not a flaw its an observation
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<TRS-80> don't hate, participate :D
<stipa> bbl
<TRS-80> or tell me shut up go away like my gf does when I talk to much
<Werner> --Jetzt zwei Striche anstelle von Punkten um fälschliche Auslösung zu vermeiden.
<ArmbianHelper> Now two lines instead of dots to avoid false activation [de~>eng]
<TRS-80> Werner: good change
<c0rnelius> Funny. Isn't it usually the other way around there?
<c0rnelius> Sweetheart you're babbling go call a friend.
<TRS-80> lot of people hitting the 2 dot thing
<TRS-80> my gf is mean
<TRS-80> also I babble about GNU/Linux, etc. she calls it "bedtime stories"
<TRS-80> yaay my doc changes are in! :D
<c0rnelius> it's better than hearing about what's her name has been going to the gym and my friend Carrie knows how much I hate that bitch and now she's showing me up and she looks so much better than me and I can't believe it I don't even know why she was invited
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<c0rnelius> Makes your head just kind of want to fall off
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<TRS-80> Yeah mine is not into that sort of drama. She also brings me food at my battle station while I am arguing with people who are wrong on the Internet. In short, a keeper1 :D
<c0rnelius> I used to tell one of my ex's if we're going out to the bar you better invite a friend cuz I'm not going to sit there all night listening to your stories
<TRS-80> c0rnelius: Good for you not being emotional tampon. We need more toxic masculinity in the West these days.
<archetech> people livin in competition all I want is my peace of mind Boston
<c0rnelius> Well this particular one was in her twenties and I was close to being 40 so she kind of got it.
<TRS-80> look at the stud c0rnelius :)
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<c0rnelius> At the time I was living in Baltimore it's just a bunch of art schools.
<c0rnelius> That and teachers and of course people that work at John Hopkins and all that crap
<TRS-80> not a fan of big cities, working toward moving out to the boonies in fact
<archetech> I was in an interview that went bad boos says we are one big family here...I said you mean like the Mansons?
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<archetech> boss
<TRS-80> lol
<c0rnelius> It depends on the city but I find that those Northeast cities are the best ones
<TRS-80> the big ones? *shudder*
<c0rnelius> they're small enough to where you don't really need a car public transportation actually works and once you get to know people they are actually nice people.
<c0rnelius> Unlike Los Angeles or say Miami. It's just a shit show everywhere and a bunch of Dick measuring.
<TRS-80> Even I will admit it's sort of cool living in a super dense area like that. As you say, you can walk everywhere, public transit, etc. Just not sustainable nor tenable in a SHTF situation from my point of view.
<archetech> another one Said how do you see urself here helping I am same age and experience as you I can reduce your load nope I'm lokking for a gopher
<c0rnelius> I recommend Baltimore. Actually once I'm done dealing with this Miami situation I'm probably going to move to Philly.
<TRS-80> Little towns in NE are super neat though, I'm talking the ones that look like xmas village with all the This Old House type places. Soper cozy.
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<TRS-80> c0rnelius: Really. Wow. Well, you do you mate. :)
<c0rnelius> I like little towns too they're definitely intriguing. Like have you ever been to Annapolis before and Maryland?
<TRS-80> Only to DC as a kid, so no
<c0rnelius> It's all super historic with the brick roads and fancy overpriced restaurants where Abraham Lincoln used to eat it's pretty cool.
<TRS-80> Yeah that would be cool
<c0rnelius> When I first moved to Maryland which was 20 some odd years ago DC was just an absolute shit hole.
<c0rnelius> Last time I went there it looked like Disneyland.
<TRS-80> See that's what I think of it, but I don't go there
<TRS-80> So what do I know
<TRS-80> But I'm cheap. It's way too expensive to live places like that. I work to live, not the other way around.
<c0rnelius> They really cleaned it up because essentially they kicked out everybody of color. people came in bought up all the properties nobody could afford it hence they had to move and then they cleaned everything up.
<c0rnelius> It's kind of like what they're trying to do to Baltimore now but it's not going to be as successful.
<TRS-80> Aah ye old gentrification
<c0rnelius> Yes exactly
<TRS-80> Aaannd... my changes are live! Woohoo! :) https://docs.armbian.com/User-Guide_Recovery/
<TRS-80> --En Englais
<ArmbianHelper> In English [fr~>eng]
<TRS-80> neat
<TRS-80> I could see where that could come in super helpful in some support situation. Nice job Werner.
<Werner> That was added - not sure - a good half year ago? Mostly designed to make communication better on developer meetings. Some are not so comfortable with english and this way they simply can write in their native language
<TRS-80> Yeah I been gone a while. I see you been busy. Lots of nice little changes.
<Werner> Russian, malaysia, china, japan...does not matter
<TRS-80> Super neat-o!
<TRS-80> I guess it calls out to some API?
<Werner> Yeah. Simply forwards to google translate api with auto detect source
<TRS-80> something something muh freedom :D
<tmaurice> It should be Anglais* in french :p
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<TRS-80> I was trying for Spanish actually, but yeah
<tmaurice> oh hahaha
<tmaurice> same language tbh
<TRS-80> ye old Romance languages. Who can name all (7?)?
<tmaurice> i have french, spanish, portugese, italian, romanian, but i am missing a few
<tmaurice> l a t i n
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<TRS-80> almost there
<tmaurice> wait does andorran count ?
<tmaurice> I think thats a separate one
<TRS-80> I don't think so
<tmaurice> damn
<TRS-80> I can never remember the last one either
<tmaurice> which ones am I missing ?
<TRS-80> but I will if you say it
<TRS-80> :D
<TRS-80> but very good, I am already impressed
<tmaurice> Hahahaha
<tmaurice> I'm french so thats basically "name your neighbours" :D
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<initbasti[m]> Hey guys, I wonder is it possible to set the package repository for my armbian build? For example could I set up a buster build with all packages from the testing package repository? I would like to create a build with a preinstalled gcc-10. Is that possible?
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<Werner> You can use the user customization script to execute commands inside the chroot of an image before it gets packed
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<yang> Is Compulab "Utilite Standard" with SD card supported by Armbian ?
<IgorPec> what is "Compulab Utilite Standard"
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* lanefu waiting for answer
<IgorPec> lanefu hey
<lanefu> Hey IgorPec
<IgorPec> whats up? btw. what is the plan with this arm server?
<IgorPec> i wasn't sure if i did it right
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<lanefu> IgorPec: well I've just been collecting people's public keys and making an ansible playbook to create users on it with sudo access
<IgorPec> i added balbes key to the end of root
<lanefu> next plan to just add some monitoring n stuff
<lanefu> as far as what to leverage for
<lanefu> IgorPec: okay i might add his account then
<IgorPec> ok
<rneese> ?
<lanefu> as far as building armbina on arm
<lanefu> i have a backwards idea
<rneese> lanefu, you are backwords
<rneese> lol
<IgorPec> sure, i have no big plans for now, just playing around. i think balbes solved the easy part
* lanefu can confirm
<IgorPec> but for complete support it will be some pain
<rneese> what is bables
<IgorPec> codename
<IgorPec> for Oleg
<IgorPec> :)
<lanefu> anywya i think focusing on making `ROOT_FS_CREATE_ONLY=force` is probably biggest immediate benefit
<lanefu> more so that compiling and making debs
<IgorPec> for making fs cache you mean?
<lanefu> but yeah plans for server.. help people taht are interested use it
<lanefu> IgorPec:yes exactly
<IgorPec> ok, i have scripts for that
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<c0rnelius> Whats the cost to rent space on ur fancy new server?
<IgorPec> not sure if we will do that :)
<lanefu> c0rnelius: an armbian-related goal and a passion for NetworkManager
<IgorPec> for armbian purposes surely-
<c0rnelius> whats an armbian related goal? making sbcs work better?
<IgorPec> or the process
<lanefu> c0rnelius: yeah biggest thing is we want the armbian-build tools to support running natively on an arm server
<c0rnelius> lanefu: I get it
<c0rnelius> I compile native most of the time
<c0rnelius> its why I'm asking
<IgorPec> yeah, but our tools still rely on CC
<lanefu> i also want to make a virtual armbian VM as build target as well
<IgorPec> so the idea is to provide both option
<lanefu> and be able to run armbian VMs for testing
<rneese> then we need a arm server that has the power to build
<c0rnelius> should be an easy enough fix
<rneese> and the space
<lanefu> rneese: yeah we have that
<IgorPec> this one has decent power, but we will get another, more powerful one
<c0rnelius> even my silly build scripts have an option for native vs cross
<c0rnelius> Armbian is of course a huge project so I'm sure its gonna be somewhat of an under taking.
<IgorPec> this year we came down to 7 compilers https://github.com/armbian/build/blob/master/lib/general.sh#L1095-L1101
<IgorPec> further reduction is investing into the code which is a complete waste of time
<c0rnelius> yeah well you guys pull in all those toolchains
<IgorPec> since it usually go for some deprecated / old code, that need to be brought up to be paired with modern compiler
<IgorPec> compiling latest u-boot + kernel, easy job
<IgorPec> one compiler
<c0rnelius> yes sir it is
<c0rnelius> should try going with mainline uboot if you can and it will cut down on a lot of headaches.
<IgorPec> i told you we don't have millions or 200 people :)
<IgorPec> having more compilers is having less headache
<c0rnelius> I know... I'm making suggestions :D
<IgorPec> but with going to native, this will make some problems
<c0rnelius> how so?
<c0rnelius> this arm server? what is it native too?
<IgorPec> gettin exact version of that might be problematioc
<IgorPec> there is gcc 10 compiler that comes with Ubuntu and that's it
<IgorPec> and that compiler will 100% fail to compiler 10 years old u-boot code
<archetech> how bought seeing how many of the supported boards will build with just gcc 10?
<archetech> on the arm server
<IgorPec> all that run mainline or few year old kernel / boot loader
<archetech> yeah start with that
<IgorPec> majoriti will, so we will probably cut exotic out and done
<archetech> the easy current stuff
<IgorPec> that will just work
<IgorPec> no doubt
<IgorPec> balbes is compiling natively all his stuff for a while AFAIK
<IgorPec> with his armbian build script fork
<lanefu> c0rnelius: this is teh arm server FYI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BtuFqj9YeQ
<c0rnelius> ok, so its aarch64.
<IgorPec> ofc
<archetech> whe thatlist of boards images work then add gcc 9
<IgorPec> we are also put one x86 into action
<IgorPec> btw. lanefu it is possible that it will be racked in estonia
<IgorPec> so 10gbps internet :)
<lanefu> hell yeah
<c0rnelius> everything that can be compiled native to aarch64 gets moved to the new native server all the old garbage which "you all hopefully drop eventually" builds the old way until you guys say... sorry no longer supporting.
* TRS-80 feels like I'm the only one that watched that video already, hence my lack of confusion
<IgorPec> old garbage is gettin removed daily ... i removed odroid c4 boot loader today
<TRS-80> (re: "arm server", anyway) heh
<IgorPec> waiting for tonymac32 to do the same for N2
<c0rnelius> yah HK uboot is stupid
<lanefu> the x86 build server will likekly still be much faster for years to come.... my opinion is that the big arm servers will play a very large role in improving testing and CI...
<archetech> my idea being dont pollute the arm server with old tc's
<archetech> thats what the old existing server should be for
<archetech> divide and conquer
<lanefu> good approach
<c0rnelius> the biggest thing you'll notice native is the speed in which images can get thrown together.
<TRS-80> native compilation though I think is a worthwhile long term goal
<c0rnelius> all that byteshift patch can get thrown out the window as it won't be needed
<c0rnelius> also*
<TRS-80> esp with such a powerful thing at our disposal
<IgorPec> threadripper is expected to be much faster
<archetech> yes consider native as the future so dont pollute it
<IgorPec> even CC
<c0rnelius> So no more compiling headers when installing a new kernel
<archetech> headers are needed. so an image can compile not just run
<c0rnelius> what I mean is... the headers will just work as they were compiled native and not cross.
<archetech> ok thats not what was said
<IgorPec> not sure why we still compile it on the machine
<IgorPec> probabably a workaround
<yang> IgorPec: Utilite Standard is the name of the embedded nettop https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/CompuLab/PC-Utilite/buster
<yang> Probably not supported in Armbian ?
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<TRS-80> yang: Qualcomm® Snapdragon™ 600 (APQ8064) quad-core @1.7GHz so I am guessing not
<IgorPec> yang: no, certainly not. i mean it could boot with some imx6 image, but you need to add boot loader, adjust dtb
<IgorPec> TRS-80: i see its some old IMX6 machine. or i am looking the wrong one?
<TRS-80> IgorPec: I found what I pasted on link yang posted
<yang> Utilite is a fanless ARM Cortex-A9 computer delivering high performance and rich I/O in a tiny form-factor. Utilite is offered with fully featured, desktop-grade Ubuntu Linux or Android operating systems delivering rich multimedia and PC-like user experience.
<yang> not to be confused with Utilite2
<IgorPec> i see, no. each arm device is quite different
<TRS-80> OK, don't mind me
<yang> ok
<TRS-80> But still, yang: Software/support is very important, which is why I use https://www.armbian.com/download/?device_support=Supported as a /starting point/, instead of the other way around.
<archetech> also I'd pluck out the bash code from buuilder and geta bash guru to make a simple new. compile.sh for arm server
<TRS-80> There are tons of random devices out there that "sound good on paper" (specs, etc.) but without proper vendor support it's just bee ess trying to sell things (IMO).
<archetech> if odroidn2 then do git clone. blah etc
<IgorPec> archetech: i guess you never see it from close proximity :)
<yang> TRS-80: yes, i looked at that web link, but couldn't find Utilite, so I thought, maybe I'd ask here
<TRS-80> I have, my eyes
<archetech> I have read some of it. just need the bits that pull whats essential
<yang> By the way, what is the difference between Armbian and Debian ?
<TRS-80> Armbian is Debian tailored to these SBC
<c0rnelius> archetech: which is then handled by the packaging patch - https://github.com/armbian/build/blob/master/patch/misc/general-packaging-5.8-9.y.patch#L39
<yang> ok thanks
<c0rnelius> which is only needed when croxx compiling
<TRS-80> which require quite specific things (esp boot, etc.) but what Igor posted more in depth
<IgorPec> cornelius: no no
<c0rnelius> um yes
<IgorPec> its probably not that simple
<c0rnelius> native compiling does not need that patch
<IgorPec> we put compilation on a target with a reasons
<IgorPec> it has preobably nothing to do with arhitecture, but i don't recall why. its here for years
<IgorPec> native compilation will still be chrooted
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<c0rnelius> Its because when you cross compile ur unable to then use those headers on the system in which you compiled the kernel and headers for.
<IgorPec> you can chroot
<c0rnelius> so if you try to compile a module against those headers without that be patched it won;t work
<TRS-80> I am sure there are tons of little differences, but it is going to take long time I suspect to work that all out on native to a level of stability that has been achieved on current build server
<TRS-80> which took years to get to
<archetech> na
<TRS-80> but we can do on side, out of production, so no rush
<archetech> thats fud
<IgorPec> c0rnelius: you might be right about
<archetech> i got peeps scripting alot harder stuff on lfs
<TRS-80> archetech: you know more about that then me, so have at it fren :)
<IgorPec> we don't need to rush anywhere with native compilation. that's the case
<c0rnelius> IgorPec: So yeah what I'm saying is... Once you start doing native, you can ditch that patch and remove that bit from the native packaging patch.
<archetech> bash guru not me
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<c0rnelius> still need it for cross stuff of course
<archetech> I know what I wouldnt do. try to adapt the current builder to native. get help do it right
<TRS-80> I am sure they will start from nothing and build up
<TRS-80> I mean, that seems a more sound appriach, but what do I know
<IgorPec> our main production is x86 based. we will slowly proceed to arm but its not top priority
<TRS-80> s/appriach/approach
<ArmbianHelper> TRS-80 meant to say: I mean, that seems a more sound approach, but what do I know
<IgorPec> top priority is functioning of the system, resanoble good hw support
<IgorPec> we have release comming out in two weeks, then we have to bring up new desktop system
<archetech> IgorPec are you or do you know a good bash person for this arm server testing/automation?
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<IgorPec> i would have it and i would not tell you :)
<IgorPec> to do what?
<archetech> also I'd pluck out the bash code from buuilder and geta bash guru to make a simple new. compile.sh for arm server
<IgorPec> and who will maintain it?
<IgorPec> and who will maintain the old one?
<archetech> the guy thats hired
<IgorPec> and who will merge desktop into both?
<IgorPec> and why having two?
<archetech> see this is where I regret talking to you sometimes
<archetech> you go into off topic stuff
<IgorPec> i asking you serious questions
<TRS-80> archetech: why don't you try to listen to what he is saying
<TRS-80> yes
<IgorPec> maintaing is the key question
<archetech> one guy for new compile.sh he writes it maintains it. its simple its cheap
<IgorPec> we already have a bash script that works on arm natively
<IgorPec> one guy is 40.000 EUR per year
<IgorPec> professional, like you said
<TRS-80> I don't know what budget is, but I don't think that's in there :)
<IgorPec> nope, there is virtually none
<TRS-80> what I figured
<IgorPec> but the "why" is here more important question
<TRS-80> we don't have like a Canonical, RedHat etc behind us (which is good and bad)
<IgorPec> why would we make simple version of the script that will be able to run natively
<IgorPec> i don't get it
<archetech> so ya have a fresh way of doing builds natively.
<archetech> with 32 cores
<IgorPec> do you have any idea what is the scale of this project?
<archetech> there ya go again.
<TRS-80> Because "native compilation" is a goal worth pursuing? It can be debated the importance of it, but that is "why."
<IgorPec> and why all pepeopl that fork our build script failed
<archetech> read my fiste 5 lines here
<archetech> first
<TRS-80> Also whether there are resources is another question.
<archetech> what a bunch of overcomplicating nay sayers
<archetech> im done
<c0rnelius> are you all using qemu when you put the images together?
<archetech> theres no qemu used natively
<IgorPec> archetech: no, you can start doing something and then will stop giving advices
<archetech> I dont do for people like you Igor ever
<IgorPec> make armbian-config from scratch. its a useful tool, you can call it archtool and make it usable on any linux
<c0rnelius> archetech: I'm not referring to building the kernel or uboot. Just the end game... slapping it all together in the chroot.
<archetech> cuz Ido it and then ya just bitch about that on down line never enough
<IgorPec> balbes script - which doesn't compile ATF or uboot - already can make image on arm
<TRS-80> archetech: I rether doubt that. Why don't you do and see.
<IgorPec> this part is already done
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<archetech> yoIm old and seen alot TRS
<archetech> Im old
<archetech> can spot things fast
<IgorPec> beeing smart is a curse :)
<initbasti[m]> Werner: Thank you for that suggestion :)
<TRS-80> archetech: It's easy to be cynical, I'm cynical too. I still try to help out where I can. Also I don't share your bad opinion (apparently) of Igor and no idea where you get it from tbh.
<archetech> IF I was to do something Id buy a 32 core server clone the builder and do all ive said
<c0rnelius> archetech: and yes.. you can use qemu native on armv6/v7/v8 and what have you. which is why I was asking if that was the approach when armbian made imgs.
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<archetech> c0rnelius you didnt see what I said. no backward building of other architechures
<IgorPec> archetech: fork the project and do whatever you like
<c0rnelius> ah must have missed that... I was just asking a question in general wasn't really directed at you. sorry bud
<archetech> ive had many of my suggestions used many times in life some I do myself some I give as a gift. ;)
<archetech> feel free to ignore em too
<TRS-80> There are lots of good ideas, but with such limited resources even good ones will have to go by the wayside some times, unfortunately.
<archetech> whY i asked if he knew somebody. vs a pro
<IgorPec> i usually have to stuff my good ideas when they crush with reality
<IgorPec> it doesn't matter arch. we will not be doing that
<archetech> oh yes the your idea isnt realistic. lol
<archetech> so dismissive
<IgorPec> arm server is here for playing around for next couple of months
<c0rnelius> geez
<TRS-80> That is a mischaracterization of what was said
<IgorPec> there are a few people already working on this
<IgorPec> which you are suggesting. just not the way you are suggesting
<c0rnelius> You both need to gets ur self a drink together. Take a shot! Laugh it off.
<archetech> I gethe just competes with me. its pretty obvious he dont like smart guys around him just yes men
<IgorPec> me compete with you??
<archetech> yeah
<TRS-80> From my point of view that sounds like a whole lot of projection
<IgorPec> you have to tell us you are smart?
<IgorPec> :)
<archetech> yono I have say you are insecure
<TRS-80> instead of demonstrating it through work product
<archetech> grow up take info like a man
<IgorPec> info has no value
<IgorPec> get over with it
<yang> Is there the need for a software mirror?
<archetech> lol
<TRS-80> Dude, I get the antidisestablishmentarianism, but Igor is not "The Man" he is leader of a F/LOSS project?
<IgorPec> yang: which location?
<yang> IgorPec: Germany
* stipa has 50" cock, noone can beat that...
<TRS-80> lol
<IgorPec> we are probably quite good in Europe i think
<TRS-80> c- c- c- combo breaker
<yang> ok
<yang> I was thinking about the www mirror
<TRS-80> yang: welcome fren :)
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<yang> hi TRS-80
<yang> IgorPec: well a www software mirror
<yang> web mirror
<yang> packages mirror
<IgorPec> i don't understant what do you mean?
<TRS-80> I think he means direct DL instead torrent?
<yang> direct download yes
<IgorPec> this is one of the mirrors
<TRS-80> even Debian recommending torrent these days :)
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<yang> grabbing the files from central mirror via rsync and mirroring it via WWW
<IgorPec> we have dl (images) and two repositories
<IgorPec> rsync.armbian.com is all you need to know :)
<yang> Do you know about the size of the mirror ?
<IgorPec> dl = files apt = repo beta = beta repo archive = archive
<IgorPec> one moment
<IgorPec> 1.5T = archive
<TRS-80> I'm going to take a stab and say..... big
<yang> ouch
<IgorPec> 400 G = dl
<yang> big indeed
<TRS-80> actually not as big as I might have thought :)
<IgorPec> archive is not needed to be mirrored anyway
<yang> sorry but that comes too big, I don't have much storage
<TRS-80> torrents man, decentralization is the future :)
<IgorPec> yeah, torrents are top 300GB
<TRS-80> many hands make light work, etc ;)
<IgorPec> packages = 150Gb
<yang> it's nice that you have a large archive of packages
<IgorPec> well, some would want to have it even more
<TRS-80> Those are just base OS and stuff, right? Pretty sure regular packages come from Debian proper. Amirite?
<IgorPec> yes, this is just our work
<IgorPec> debian packages comes from debian
<TRS-80> Yeah, this is one of best things about Armbian (IMO)
<TRS-80> but I am a Debian guy <3
* yang too
<yang> I'll look into Armbian
<TRS-80> I like you! You can stay. :)
<yang> got a few SBC's
<IgorPec> what do you got?
<yang> TRS-80: hehe
<yang> I got some RPI's (2,3) , Chiliboard, bananapi
<yang> i was thinking of using Chiliboard for Arch
<yang> and bananapi for parabola
<TRS-80> Oh man, there are so many more interesting boards nowadays.
<yang> so rpi2 can be tested with armbian
<IgorPec> nope
<TRS-80> no Armbian on any RPi
<IgorPec> no support for rpi
<yang> oh
<TRS-80> (they get plenty elsewhere)
<yang> why not
<IgorPec> bananapi
<TRS-80> also lots problems with bootloader ,etc.
<IgorPec> some ideological, some praticial reasons
<yang> ok
<yang> chiliboard ?
<IgorPec> i had to google for it :)
<yang> IgorPec: Are you from/in Slovenia ?
<IgorPec> yes
<IgorPec> from and in
<yang> nice that a Linux distro from Slovenia exists
<yang> I don't know of many others, there used to be Pingo Linux....ages ago
<TRS-80> I would say it's from a worldwide cast of characters, taking nothing away fron Igor, all due respect. :)
<TRS-80> He certainly deserve all the credit for getting the ball rolling, anyway, into a project. I don't envy him in that. :)
<stipa> you should all move to Slovenia
<stipa> it's all you guys dream of
<TRS-80> inb4 Igor says "f off we're full"
<stipa> They're mix of Austria and blakans
<IgorPec> Pingo Linux. ok that's old stuff
<IgorPec> but i think its not alive anymore, even our local Lugus lost spaces for meetings long time ago
<yang> yeah
<IgorPec> we only meet up on yearly barbeque
<IgorPec> which is now also canceled due to high powers
<IgorPec> slovenia is a nice place to live in
<stipa> many stars live there
<stipa> international*
<yang> stars?
<yang> no
<yang> we don't have any
<yang> :)
<IgorPec> yang: you are from germany, right=
<yang> Nope, I am Slovene
<IgorPec> oh, i see
<yang> stipa: when you mentioned stars I was thinking "private jets" and such :)
<yang> stipa: we have some famous people, but i wouldn't call them "stars"
<yang> IgorPec: I have a server in Germany, where I have a mirror service
<stipa> yang: i'm not sure, they like it beacuse of low taxes and affordable living
<stipa> something like that
* yang shrugs
<yang> maybe some foreigners, who live here, dunno
<stipa> yeah
<stipa> It's in the eurozone and cheap
<yang> could be
<yang> Tourists usually like Slovenia, you can also see it in just a weekend
<IgorPec> eurozone and cheap = Bulgaria
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<yang> IgorPec: yes
<yang> stipa: Slovenia has German prices and Bulgarian salaries :)
<IgorPec> oh, ain't that bad. been in bulgaria :)
<yang> where are you from stipa *?
<stipa> Zagreb
<yang> ok, that is near
<stipa> it is
<stipa> whre are you now?
<yang> In slovenia
<stipa> place*
<yang> Ljubljana
<stipa> nice
<yang> IgorPec: I know 2 people with surname Pečovnik
<IgorPec> there are not many of us
<stipa> IgorPec: Yeah, but Bulgaria is not so economically developed like Slovenia
<yang> I guess the origin is "Koroška" ?
<IgorPec> yes, koroška
<IgorPec> stipa: all important companies are there because of low taxes
<stipa> IgorPec: they have no aro nad are not in the EU
<stipa> euro*
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<stipa> Bulgaria sounds oke to us but not to someone from more developed economies, to them Slovenia is cool
<stipa> Near Italy, Austria, Germany...
<c0rnelius> There is only 900 and something people that have your surname, Igor. Only 174 I believe that have mine. I win! Ha
<c0rnelius> I guess a reality though you're winning.
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<IgorPec> but my wife surname is slovene second most generic :)
<c0rnelius> Well there you go
<stipa> IgorPec: sure it's oke for companies but not so for living
<yang> stipa: my father was often in Zagreb, when he was young
<yang> stipa: he is from Zidani Most
<stipa> yeah, that's much closer to Zagreb than Ljubljana
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<stipa> I have lived in a fancy part of Ljubljana for around a year
<yang> which part would that be ?
<stipa> forgot, give me a sec
<stipa> Rođna dolina i guess
<yang> ah yes
<stipa> Rožna*
<yang> houses
<stipa> yeah
<yang> yes, it's kinda "elite"
<stipa> and complex roads
<yang> :)
<yang> haha
<yang> Rozna Dolina III / XII
<yang> Rozna Dolina IX / III
<yang> :)
<stipa> yeah
<yang> very confusing indeed
<stipa> head spins
<stipa> totally
<stipa> they say that they have a lot of problems
<stipa> because of that
<stipa> but it's not that bad
<c0rnelius> In my case the Germans in WWII did a fantastic job of interacting my lineage and the only saving grace was those who left before it got out of hand or left after WWI. Which would explain the sad numbers. There were of course some cases that made it thru WWII but they were very few.
<c0rnelius> Eradicating*
<yang> stipa: I tell you a secret (you probably know it already) vertical streets are I, III, V.....horizontal streets are II, IV, VI....
<stipa> yang: VII is also horizontal...
<stipa> oh XII
<stipa> it's 12
<stipa> you're right
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<stipa> my bad
<stipa> that helps alot, thanks yang
<yang> ok :)
<yang> stipa it was nice chattting with you, and you TRS-80 and c0rnelius also, now I need to get some sleep
<yang> have a nicve evening
<TRS-80> yang: Cheers!
<stipa> and i told you wrong, i actually lived there
<yang> have a nice evening
<stipa> u2
<c0rnelius> Night
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