Werner changed the topic of #armbian to: armbian - Linux for ARM development boards | www.armbian.com | Github: github.com/armbian | Commits: #armbian-commits | Forums Feed: #armbian-rss | Type 'help' for help | Logs: -> irc.armbian.com
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<Miouyouyou> karlp What's the setup actually ? You're connecting your OPI PC Plus to another computer and trying to view the console through the other computer ? Are your writing through this tty ? What happens if you fire picocom on the remote computer, and do echo "blablabla" > /dev/serial/by-id/usb-Armbian_Linux_5.4.45-sunxi_with_musb-hdrc_Gadget_Serial_v2.4-if00
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<Miouyouyou> Do you see "blablabla" on the other computer ?
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<ArmbianTwitter> @henriktudborg (Henrik Tudborg): @zathras @quasi42 If you are cool with an rk3328 then Nano pi r2s or something like the NEO3. Here is also a good list of armbian supported devices https://t.co/bvt6vh5gGq Bunch have dual Ethernet (13s ago)
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<ArmbianTwitter> @DieZuckerbude (Ben Zucker 🍰): @henriktudborg @zathras @quasi42 #Armbian is indeed a great choice for having close to stock experience. Neo3 offering one GBe port only but has USB3 as well to which an USB ethernet adapter could be connected. On the bottom line this is what the R2S internally is connected. But in smaller package 😜 (20s ago)
<BenZucker[m]> fizikz you could try to eliminate systemd's resolved to disable local DNS caching and go back to the classic use of resolv.conf
<BenZucker[m]> lanefu curious. Ever tried to use github's resources as runner instead of self hosted? They seem to offer caching for used session too to re-use them in future runs.
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<toomuchfire> help
<ArmbianHelper> Check out our awesome documentation! It's tremendous, promise! https://docs.armbian.com/
<toomuchfire> OrangePi Zero 256, stable PS, recommended 32 and 64 GB SD cards, Xunlong's Orangepizerolts_2.0.8_ubuntu_bionic_server_linux5.4.27.img comes right up. Serial console too. Armbian_20.08.1_Orangepizeroplus_buster_current_5.8.5.img doesn't even start u-boot.
<BenZucker[m]> Good boy ArmbianHelper 😊
<toomuchfire> Wondering if this is a regression, can I try an older buster image, couldn't find one.
<BenZucker[m]> Wrong image
<BenZucker[m]> If you do not have an orangepi zero plus you should not use the orangepi zero plus image.
<HerculeP> toomuchfire: look at https://dl.armbian.com/orangepizero/archive/ for buster etc
<HerculeP> or even https://dl.armbian.com/ for all modells
<fizikz> BenZucker: what if i want to enjoy the superiority of systemd? *trollface* but seriously, i want to avoid changing the system vs expected defaults as much as possible. just wondering what i could do next time in the rare event dns resolution has issues, without rebooting
<BenZucker[m]> ^^ maybe a simple restart of the mentioned service will do as well. Try n error.
<fizikz> thx, i'll keep that in mind
<toomuchfire> much better, thanks all
<toomuchfire> maz3r..pagjj..
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<karlp> Miouyouyou: yes, opi pc+ connected via usb-otg to host pc. hostpc sees "armbian gadget" tty turn up. picocom on that tty gives me a blank. (there's nothing at the other end)
<karlp> after linking ttyGS0 to getty as mentioned, it "correctly" offers a console login.
<karlp> it _might_ have worked as just "here's a random tty, you can use if you want to do gneric serial transfer between two pcs" but.... who wants that? that should be the "tweak options" way, IMO.
<karlp> (It should really offer the composite gadget, so you cna have a console, and _still_ have a usb0 network interface and do whatever userspace comms you like on the side)
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<raver> Hi, I've build the current biboumi 8.5 stable Version for Armbian (arm64) via checkinstall. is there a place I can Upload it in case anyone is interested?
<raver> in case someone wants to have recent IRC to XMPP bridge on armbian :)
<ArmbianTwitter> @armbian (armbian): RT @sinovoip: #BananaPi BPI-M5 ,#Amlogic #S905X3 Processor with 4G lpddr4,16G eMMC,4 USB3.0 ,1GbE LAN #OpenSource #RaspberryPi #SBC https:/… (11s ago)
<ArmbianTwitter> @armbian (armbian): RT @TeeFirefly: Some basic specifications of Station P1 Geek PC. #StationP1 #geek #minipc #minicomputer #portablepc https://t.co/8J0JtZfVIf (28s ago)
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<lanefu> raver: rock64 rk3328, rockpro64 rk3399
<HerculeP> hey lanefu, Armbian 20.8.1 odroidc2 5.8.5 Bionic (downloaded via .torrent) doesnt boot into Desktop :(
<HerculeP> 5.7 worked fine
<HerculeP> just FYI
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<lanefu> IgorPec: I thought we were on kernel 5.7 for armbian 20.8?
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<IgorPec> 5.8.y is everwhere now
<IgorPec> but its possible that desktop doesn't work due to fishy 3d support
<lanefu> oh... we switch from 5.7 to 5.8 with 20.8.1?
<lanefu> or am i just way confused lol
<IgorPec> yes
<IgorPec> that was withing "small bugfix updated" last week
<IgorPec> which I haven't find time to make a documentation
<lanefu> lol
<lanefu> small eh
<ArmbianTwitter> @Superna9999 (Neil Armstrong): @sinovoip @armbian Nice ! @sinovoip could we have some samples to get it upstream ? (6s ago)
<karlp> (surely they should be encouraged to do that themselves, rather than getting it done for them for the low price of a board or three?)
<lanefu> karlp: you'd think so.. but doesn't seem to be how that ecosystem works most of the time
<archetech> n2 bullseye still on 5.7.15 no plus OClk
<IgorPec> its on 5.8.y and OC works
<IgorPec> karlp: making a hw and upstream - why nvidia doesn't do that?
<karlp> I know, but it could still be hammered on every opportunity, instead of playing along perhaps. no big deal, it does seem to be slowly changing anyway.
<IgorPec> playing along? with what?
<IgorPec> don't exactly understand what u mean by that
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<karlp> everytime "we" suggest to "just send us some hardware, we'll do your job" we're continuing to endorse teh status quo, that's what I mean by playing along.
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<IgorPec> ahaa, well, this has a bit changed. we don't just accepty every sh* :)
<IgorPec> and most of the mainlineing is done by pros
<IgorPec> but maintaning and integrating, that's another story
<archetech> so why is my n2 stuck on old kern -dtb
<archetech> I see 2 dtb's but no oc too
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<IgorPec> you need to update u-boot
<archetech> done anything else ?
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<ArmbianTwitter> @guidol70 (Guido Lehwalder): @sinovoip @armbian could we get a M5 multitronic? :) https://t.co/kJuww1j1Uq (2s ago)
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<lanefu> archetech: dance
<archetech> not yet how do i get htop to show cpu frews ?
<archetech> freqs
<lanefu> i hate to say it, but i'm still confused about which htop package doesn what, when
<archetech> F2 is setup dont know what to choose
<archetech> got it
<archetech> cpufreq-info shows the 2.4 etc are available
<archetech> armb-config cant chnage em
<archetech> min is 1000 max is 2016
<archetech> may have to play w/ the governor
<archetech> ah theres a bug opened
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<archetech> so no straight answer today I guess burn a new image nah just wont use armbian
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<emOne> Geez
<emOne> Armbian on s905x3 has too many problems
<buZz> aww
<emOne> Hello buZz
<buZz> hiya
<emOne> buzz what board or box do you run armbian on?
<buZz> a nanopi m1
<emOne> Is allwin nicer than amlogic?
<buZz> allwinner h3 , so i could just run plain debian on it
<buZz> but was too lazy to move yet
<buZz> allwinner is very GPL happy and willing to help
<buZz> #linux-sunxi is also quite active
<emOne> That is pretty awesome
<emOne> When I did my research before getting my amlogic box I found that users were quite happy with the cpu
<emOne> I didn't realise that Linux on ARM is very a work in progress
<buZz> hehe well
<buZz> its very momentary
<buZz> what works well for linux 3.x might no longer work in linux 4.x
<emOne> It is a shame that amlogic and rockchip don't hire kernel developers
<buZz> cause all the android devices (the biggest group of arm linux devices) never ever get updates
<buZz> nvidia does
<buZz> also for their arm cpus
<emOne> The nvidia boards and boxes are really nice tbh
<emOne> Pricey too
<emOne> The boxes don't run Linux though
<emOne> They only run android
<emOne> There have been some hacked together kernels that runs on the oldest nvidia shield
<emOne> But it was only a proof of concept OS
<emOne> buzz kernel 4.9 works fine on my box
<emOne> Including WiFi and video decoding
<buZz> nice
<buZz> i have a update standing by
<buZz> to 5.8.7 on my chromebook
<buZz> archlinux-arm
<buZz> the XE503C32 chromebook by samsung
<buZz> exynos 5 8core cpu
<buZz> no video decode yet though, but no youtube == higher focus on work ;)
<emOne> Hahah yea
<emOne> For some people Youtube = work
<buZz> hehe those ppl suck
<buZz> as george carlin used to say, anyone in marketing should just kill themselves
<emOne> Unless you unbox toys and make millions a year
<emOne> Hahah those Marketing people, tell me about it
<emOne> Amlogic and rockchip should hire some kernel developers
<c0rnelius> Got my Rock64 from that amazon deal. It's legit! Sdcard, lcd display, power supply and 1G Rock64 for $8. shocking.
<emOne> Oh wow
<c0rnelius> should order more and just sell everything on ebay. lol ridiculous.
<emOne> The last time I checked rk3328 wasn't even capable of running armbian
<emOne> Is this a new thing?
<archetech> see if can compile at -j3 or 4
<archetech> w/o segfault
<emOne> Or was it rk3388??
<archetech> you'll need a swap to test that
<c0rnelius> Rk3328 runs Armbian just fine.
<archetech> runs yes compile something
<archetech> like cmake
<c0rnelius> I'm currently cooking an image. I'll see when it's done.
<c0rnelius> I don't recall the Renegade having any segfault issues though?
<archetech> its not a cpu problem its rockchip v2 design flaws
<c0rnelius> Awe I see
<archetech> nic usb too can be fun
<c0rnelius> Well it is a pine product afterall. 😁
<archetech> hope ya got a good one
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<emOne> Do you think that perhaps there will be more linux arm development once the arm macbook pro comes out?
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<c0rnelius> honestly I'll probs just stick Kodi on it and put it in the livingroom. Not a huge fan of rockchip really. they tend to run to hot and uboot is a pain in the ass.
<archetech> I found one distro that ran/compiled and that was ayufans ubu
<archetech> so its not a bad deal if I use that
<archetech> can do omv or w/e probably
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<emOne> Is there anything wrong with running armbian with a 4.9 kernel?
<emOne> You see.. This is what I don't get. Everything worked in 4.9.
<emOne> But with mainline there are now so many bugs and problems
<emOne> Things like video decoding and 3d acceleration only works with proprietary blobs in 4.9
<emOne> But there are no bugs otherwise
<emOne> How do you go from something that works to something that has a ton of bugs?
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<lanefu> emOne: 4.9 works "right" for the wrong reasons basically
<emOne> And that is the crazy thing about it
<lanefu> you may be happier just using hardkernel's desktop images for now
<emOne> I was thinking about that actually recently
<emOne> lanefu do they include the video decoding blobs for amlogic?
<lanefu> armbian's more focused on getting things on mainline for long-term stability, and desktop isnt top priority
<lanefu> emOne: not sure what accel they have
<emOne> There really isn't much documentation on it either
<emOne> I will just try and see for myself
<emOne> All the nice stuff like panfrost is in mainline
<emOne> But yes.. Mainline is way too buggy as of now
<lanefu> yeah needs lots of testing, tuning and help from others
<lanefu> and i'll say help from others a second time for emphasis
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<emOne> I am always happy to help test mainline kernels
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<emOne> I have never done driver based coding or kernel coding before so I am not sure how much I am personally able to test
<emOne> It is a bit of a joke that a lot of hardware manufacturers don't help with coding
<emOne> And a lot is left to the community
<lanefu> yeah it does suck
<lanefu> price points probably wouldnt be where theey are
* emOne really hopes for Linux development to get busy once apple makes arm macs
<IgorPec> apple will change excatly nothing
<IgorPec> when you hear about ARM is about customisation
<emOne> And apple is all about propriatry walled of gardens
<emOne> I get it
<IgorPec> yep. they will only support ... themselvs
<IgorPec> as you can see clearly with RPi
<IgorPec> or nvidia
<IgorPec> they are far away from opensource
<emOne> Even with nvidia it is hard if not impossible to run Debian or armbian on the TV shield
<IgorPec> you can't run mainline kernel. you can run their garbage only
<emOne> Yep
<emOne> My TV box is quite similar to the odroid c4
<IgorPec> while on the other hand, Amlogic and Rockchip is investing in mainline
<emOne> Please tell amlogic to try harder heh
<IgorPec> they don't support Armbian, so I don't care ;)
<IgorPec> well, even C4 is very troublesome at this moment
<IgorPec> TV box with similar chip can only be worse
<emOne> So many things are broken in mainline with this TV box
<emOne> HDMI is broken
<IgorPec> this is expected since most likely nobody is working on it
<IgorPec> amlogic is covering drivers, the rest is up to vendor
<IgorPec> if vendor doen't do or find someone to do it, you can only rely on community support as armbian do
<emOne> Isn't HDMI controlled by the arm soc?
<IgorPec> and even for armbian, tvbox support is not go. Too expesive
<emOne> Most TV boxes are really cheap these days
<IgorPec> its just hardware with absolutely no investment into sw support
<emOne> I think HK and other sbc manufacturers are probably also hiring people from the community to fix things
<PPA> I've got a S905X3 based one running one of balbes150's images
<emOne> Oooh nice PPA!!!
<PPA> Wi-fi doesn't work, I never tested audio, but as a headless server it's doing a pretty good job
<emOne> How is it?
<PPA> (X96 Air, P3)
<emOne> Does hdmi work with a AVR?
<IgorPec> reverse engineering and trial and error :)
<PPA> What's an AVR?
<PPA> HDMI video works
<emOne> The thing that sits between a TV and your 5.1 surround sound
<PPA> huh
<PPA> I don't have either of those things
<emOne> Audio Video receiver
<emOne> PPA how much ram do you have?
<PPA> 4 GB
<IgorPec> i am using external DAC for playing audio
<PPA> also 64 GB eMMC storage
<PPA> I'm really surprised I can run a Minecraft server on it (seeing how Minecraft is Java and generally rather resource-inefficient)
<emOne> PPA with my box it only reports having 3600mb ram even though I have 4gb
<PPA> Ah, same for me
<IgorPec> this chip is among fastest
<IgorPec> its expected that it will handle high workload
<emOne> On 4.9 I had access to the full 4gb of ram
<IgorPec> there is just one issue - since it doesn't have proper outside connection (PCI) its a bit limited
<PPA> From all I know (I never opened mine up) the X96 Air, and TV boxes in general, also have terrible thermals, but I never had a problem with overheating so far
<emOne> I don't understand why in mainline it only detects 3.6gb of ram
<PPA> though mine stands at a 90° angle, rather than lying flat on the ground
<emOne> That is so frustrating
<IgorPec> nobody understand without investigation ;)
<emOne> How do you investigate? Take a rock and hit my TV box with it? Hahha
<IgorPec> probably its some reservation ... but do you need that 0.4G dramatically?
<PPA> It's similar on my desktop PC actually
<PPA> When I had 8 GB RAM, htop reported only 5.something GB
<emOne> I don't really need it.. No..
<PPA> I recently upgraded to 16 GB (since RAM is extremely cheap right now, this only cost me 50 €), now it reports 13.7 GB (and 2 GB swap)
<emOne> But it is frustrating that all these small things don't work fully
<emOne> The HDMI thing is a killer
<IgorPec> haha
<IgorPec> full working
<emOne> It even hijacks all my other HDMI inputs on my AVR
<PPA> I always assumed the missing RAM was just https://www.linuxatemyram.com at work
<emOne> But it should still show the total ram as 4gb
<emOne> Even if some is reserved
<IgorPec> classical example
<emOne> The HDMI is even more funny
<emOne> I have a sat receiver plugged into one hdmi port
<emOne> The TV box with mainline armbian in the other
<emOne> You are supposed to be able to switch between hdmi inputs on the AVR
<emOne> When I turn on the armbian box it hijacks all hdmi inputs
<emOne> Which I have NEVER seen lol
<emOne> So all hdmi inputs suddenly display armbian
<emOne> Even if the other HDMI devices are on
<PPA> armbian taking over the world
<emOne> lol yes
<IgorPec> yes, thats a feature :)
<IgorPec> a great one :)
<PPA> bow to the penguin
<emOne> Hahahahaha
<emOne> I didn't even know that such sorcery was possible
<emOne> Marketing feature I guess lol
<PPA> But yeah, I'm quite happy with that TV box, though I never tried using it for multimedia.
<emOne> Are you booting from SD or emmc?
<PPA> eMMC, which is the other nice thing
<emOne> Which dtb are you using?
<PPA> It ran for over a month without needing any restarts or maintenance, can handle a small modded Minecraft server, and I also used it for jellyfin for abit
<emOne> which dtb do you use?
<PPA> but the lack of hardware decoding and wi-fi mhampered its use
<PPA> one sec
<emOne> Ty
<nekomancer[m]> martinayotte: ping
<emOne> PPA I am booting from SD for now to test the features
<PPA> meson-sm1-sei610-2.dtb from somewhere in that thread
<emOne> Cool I have a copy of that
<PPA> Unfortunately Gbit ethernet doesn't work, I ahd to manually set it to 100 Mb/s
<PPA> (which the -ethfix dtb does automatically)
<emOne> I have a suspicion that the Sd card reader driver is also bugged
<PPA> I ran it off SD card for a while (maybe a month?) which worked fine
<emOne> I boot from SD card,, and when I watch a movie for instance armbian will hang after a while
<PPA> Did you check the temperature to see if that might be the cause?
<emOne> Gui elements will dissappear at first
<emOne> No I haven't to be honest
<PPA> The lack of hwaccel was quite noticeable when I ran a jellyfin server on it
<emOne> I thought that mainline included hw decoding
<PPA> If I watched something over the network with a device/client that could decode the video format on its own, everything was fine
<PPA> but when the TV box had to do any transcoding, all cores maxed out at 100 % load and the stream stuttered hard
<emOne> Isn't there the open source hardware decoding driver?
<PPA> I have no idea tbh
<emOne> I think it can decode everything apart from x265/h265
<PPA> I know there are WIP ones for Allwinner (Cedrus) and Rockchip (hantro, rkvdec), but I don't know about Amlogic
<emOne> X264/h264 works fine
<PPA> also most thngs I watch are 10-bit h265, heh
<emOne> PPA I actually wanted to use an arm box for a long time as a headless server
<emOne> That site is so annoying as it only lists video decoding as partial
<PPA> yeah
<PPA> Depending on what you need it for, you can get away with very little in terms of hardware
<emOne> Heh, I was thinking a fileserver and a seedbox
<PPA> Running an IRC bouncer, an IRC server, and nginx for hosting some files and web pages doesn't even register in terms of CPU load or memory occupation
<emOne> Oh yes.. And an irc bouncer too
<PPA> Jellyfin, when I used it, only ever crept up to 1 GB RAM usage under load (well, and 100 % x4 CPU when software transcoding, but it shouldn't be doing that anyway)
<emOne> Seedboxes can take up quite a bit of ram
<PPA> Hm, haven't set that up yet
<emOne> But that is just something I was thinking about because a seedbox requires to be online all the time
<emOne> And a full pc is overkill imho
<PPA> A TV box will certainly do the job; you could probably get away with a little Orange Pi too
<emOne> Well it even worked on the raspberry pi
<emOne> But the USB2 port was a bottleneck
<emOne> And hosting files on an Sd card is not so great
<emOne> The cards end up breaking on the rpi when they're constantly accessed
<PPA> I had a HDD connected tot he X96 Air via USB3, but I never tested the transfer speed
<PPA> but for my modest purposes, it was always fast enough
<emOne> Someone did test it
<PPA> (What was more annoying was controlling spinup/spindown, I never quite managed that)
<emOne> There is a benchmark out there for the s905x3 in general
<emOne> That is why you put your sever into the basement or a sound proof closet
<emOne> I am happy if the server works
<PPA> I had it in a different room so I didn't hear the HDD, but it bothered me to *know* it was running when it didn't need to
<emOne> Ahh yes
<emOne> There are some nice servers you can put in front of nginx
<PPA> It would randomly spin up periodically. I looked into all the usual suspects for what could make it do so (like logs being written to it or anything) but never learned why it did that, or how to prevent it
<emOne> Maybe you need a caching server in front of nginx?
<PPA> Did a cron thing to manually spin it down periodically but that seemed suboptimal
<emOne> It will put the most accessed files into ram
<PPA> I'm not sure if it was running nginx at the time
<emOne> Did you have your drives in a nice raid array too+
<emOne> ?
<PPA> If it did, nginx wasn't configured to access any files on it either, unless pinging every connected storage device once in a while is something it does
<PPA> No
<PPA> I just copy important files to a few different drives once in a while
<emOne> Some people are concerned with the opposite. They want their drives to never spin down because it increases access time to files.
<emOne> If you for instance have a nas with your movies it will take longer to access them if the drive has to spin up first
<emOne> There is a notable delay
<PPA> That may matter if you're running a business or a popular, highly frequented website, but I don't see the point of that if you're using it at home
<emOne> It is annoying to have the drives spinning yes
<PPA> I did notice the spin-up, but it's not like waiting a few seconds was unberable
<emOne> I used to run a 2tb raid array in the basement when 2 tb was a lot
<emOne> When I accessed movies I did notice the delay too yes
<emOne> If you run a business you wouldn't notice any drive spin up because it would probably be handled at the server farm
<emOne> I even notice the delay with external usb3.0 slim drives
<emOne> SSDs really made harddrives feel like floppy disk drives heh
<PPA> Yeah
<PPA> It's fine for external storage and files you don't access often (like videos), but turning on an old laptop running off an internal HDD is jarring
<emOne> Yes
<emOne> I am still a bit sceptical when it comes to important files being stored on SSDs
<emOne> I think hdds are far better for backups
<emOne> Also when it comes to files that come in bulk it would be cheaper to store them on hard drives
<emOne> All the books of the English speaking world would probably take up less than 5tb
<PPA> I store “archived“ files on an external HDD and copy over to an internal SSD those files I expect to access more often
<emOne> Yes that is what I am doing now also
<emOne> You have to keep a backup of the backup too just in case
<emOne> It is painful to lose a drive which had unique files on it
<IgorPec> Zraid2+backup should be enough ;)
<PPA> I also set up a rsync cronjob that copies a few important folders' contents over to my TV box every hour if there have been any changes
<PPA> wanted to extend that by sticking a USB stick into the box, and having it copy those backups onto the USB stick as well, but haven't gotten around to that yet
<PPA> Fortunately, the worst data loss I've experienced so far was the internal batteries of some Game Boy cartridges emptying, and the save data being lost. (RIP my Pokémon Gold team)
<emOne> The newer Gameboy cartridges don't use a ram like chip to store the safefiles
<emOne> They have some type of nand
<PPA> Yeah
<PPA> With the GBA it varies
<emOne> These are unofficial cartridges though
<emOne> You can stick any Rom on them
<PPA> The GBA Pokémon games use their battery for the real-time clock, but if it empties the saves remain intact
<emOne> No way!?!
<emOne> That is awesome
<PPA> but there's another GBA game (Breath of Fire II) where I actually lost my save eventually
<emOne> Those were amazing little hand held a
<emOne> handhelds*
<emOne> The Game coding on those is mind boggling and super low level
<emOne> IgorPec unless you have one of those new harddrives
<IgorPec> well, you have to be careful not to have them. i got one. that's good for a backup
<emOne> SMR drives they call them I think
<IgorPec> yes. they are crap for proper storage / raid
<emOne> I don't see how it is not considered a rip off
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<emOne> The drives literally cost the same as normal drives with the same amount of space
<IgorPec> its a rif offd
<emOne> Perhaps not anymore
<IgorPec> but what can you do?
<emOne> Yea
<IgorPec> both major ones have this practice, seagate and wd
<emOne> Yep I saw
<emOne> I was even surprised that these drives existed
<emOne> It was somewhat of a secret
<emOne> The drives weren't even labeled to be SMR
<IgorPec> people buy all crap :)
<emOne> Hmm
<IgorPec> now most recent BS is RPM, or "RPM"
<emOne> Perhaps the drive I bought recently is also SMR
<emOne> Lol I saw yes
<IgorPec> which one?
<emOne> Seagate 5tb
<emOne> 2.5
<IgorPec> that's my backup drive and its crap one, yep
<emOne> Expansion portable
<IgorPec> also very little used and already have bad sectors
<emOne> Dang
<emOne> Does it have SMR?
<IgorPec> sadly out of warranty
<IgorPec> yes, its SMR
<emOne> Crao
<emOne> Geez
<emOne> I thought something was strange about it
<IgorPec> only pro grade are not SMR i think
<IgorPec> but for single setup this its not that critical
<emOne> Drives that are not reliable is the biggest problem
<emOne> My oldest drives are the most reliable
<emOne> And have never broken
<IgorPec> agree
<IgorPec> now they are total crap. i recently purchased 4 drives
<emOne> The only one that broke was because it fell while spinning
<IgorPec> one was failed from start and one failed in one week
<PPA> ouch
<emOne> Can you get warranty replacements on them just before they fail?
<IgorPec> yes ofc, but you need to pack them, go to the post office ...
<emOne> I even have new Kingston usb sticks that have been failing on me
<IgorPec> my drive bay is not hot swappable ... loosing time
<emOne> Also you need to backup that data somewhere before you receive a new drive
<IgorPec> no, not needed
<emOne> Whynot?
<IgorPec> they are in a raid field
<IgorPec> with double parity which can survive two drive failure
<emOne> OK that is awesome
<emOne> What raid number?
<IgorPec> zraid2
<IgorPec> raidz2
<emOne> Nice
<emOne> 2x2 drives?
<IgorPec> 6
<IgorPec> + cache
<emOne> so 4 + 2?
<emOne> Ahh OK
<emOne> 6 +2?:)
<emOne> Awesome
<IgorPec> no, 6 mechanical + nvme for cache
<IgorPec> and compression ... ZFS file system
<emOne> Do you have proxmox installed on that system or something?
<emOne> I know that proxmox uses zfs by default when using raid
<IgorPec> i don't need, i know how to put it together on debian
<IgorPec> proxmox is basically debian with all sorts of things
<IgorPec> i was testing OMV for a while, but then i decided to put it together from scratch
<IgorPec> OMV also provides handling ZFS
<IgorPec> but you need to enable it extra IIRC
<emOne> Yes
<emOne> You could also get a ready made nas cage
<emOne> Which hopefully supports zfs
<emOne> And attach your favourite arm board to it :)
<IgorPec> proper case with how swap is quite expensive and my rack is too shallow for most of them
<emOne> Or perhaps that is not possible
<emOne> Yea
<IgorPec> with arm boards and in such setup? only some expensive arm boards
<emOne> It is annoying that there arent any consumer hot swap cases
<IgorPec> there are, but connectivity is problematic
<emOne> Woah that is cool
<IgorPec> usually they are USB based which is no way
<emOne> Yes I just realised that
<IgorPec> you need at least sata directly on board and you are very limited. also x86 boards just don't have 10 sata connections on board
<emOne> Sas to sata converters
<emOne> ?
<IgorPec> if you have sas on board :)
<emOne> I read that you can use those to have enough sata connections
<IgorPec> yeah, when you have a huge server, that's not a problem.
<IgorPec> i only have place for itx board
<IgorPec> my old dual cpu server has at least 8 sata ports i think
<IgorPec> the new thing for solving this is OCulink
<emOne> There is a way to daisy chain the connectors using sas to sata converters to create enough ports on the motherboard
<IgorPec> OCulink
<emOne> Very cool
<emOne> That Board also has 4 dimm slots which is awesome
<IgorPec> yeah. sadly also expensive
<IgorPec> and you got 2x 10GB network
<IgorPec> which is also nice feature for NAS
<emOne> It is sad to see that mitx boards have always 2 dimm slots
<emOne> Yes
<emOne> there is always mATX ;)
<IgorPec> this is mainstram, yep :)
<IgorPec> we will have helis64 for much much less cash and reasonoble good NAS setup
<emOne> Actually mitx is more mainstream than mATX these days
<IgorPec> aha, yeah probably
<emOne> You get a much bigger variety in mitx boards now
<IgorPec> that's true, but for my desktop i have full size ATX
<emOne> I like these mini boards and small size computers
<nekomancer[m]> SMR good fit to backup usage. It's crap only for old-school raid arrays, who drop out drive if it slowly respond.
<emOne> I hope my 5b seagate drive will last longer than 5 months
<IgorPec> my lasted more then 2 years, while idling for most of the time ;)
<IgorPec> cold backup
<emOne> I am already planning how I am going to use the warranty service
<emOne> It is auch a rip off
<emOne> Hard drives shouldn't be designed to fail after 2 years with no usage...
<IgorPec> welcome to brave new world ;)
<emOne> Even new USB sticks are failing
<emOne> I have old 512mb and 1gb sticks that still work to this day
<IgorPec> they are just producing more crap nowadays
<emOne> USB sticks require some energy from time to time
<nekomancer[m]> modern filesystems like LVM2, zfs, btrfs, hammerfs should deal with SMR. Sure drives should provide info about fast and slow zones and allow to choose it.
<emOne> IgorPec I have a feeling that they can make drives bigger by sacrificing reliability and longevity
<emOne> The same is the case with new SSDs
<emOne> Imagine you buy a macbook where the SSDs are soldered onto the motherboard
<emOne> Now imagine those SSDs fail....
<emOne> You can throw your 4000 dollar machine away
<emOne> You can just put that laptop into a trash can and close it with a lid haha
<emOne> This actually happened to some people
<IgorPec> now, you could repair it or replace the whole unit
<IgorPec> apple would love that ;)
<emOne> Old hard drives lasted for 10 years
<emOne> Probably more
<IgorPec> yeah, but they were way less density
<emOne> 1tb
<emOne> 500gb
<IgorPec> and probably those today called for "medical use" still does
<IgorPec> but 1TB will cost you 100$
<emOne> 10 years ago you had 1tb and 500gb drives in your laptop
<emOne> After that ssd was invented
<emOne> And they were 250gb
<IgorPec> true, i still have one of those here for testing
<emOne> I never understood how people accepted going from 1tb to 250gb SSDs
<IgorPec> ssd is also here more then 10y now
<emOne> Yes
<emOne> And now finally 1tb SSDs are affordable
<IgorPec> speed?
<emOne> I honestly think most people didn't really know a difference
<IgorPec> still today having an SSD nas is considered luxury
<IgorPec> they could feel it :)
<emOne> I would prefer a hard drive raid array
<emOne> More storage
<IgorPec> hard drive + ssd is better
<emOne> SSDs don't sound reliable
<emOne> Yes
<IgorPec> here in zfs you have ssd for read cache and if they fail, you only get a notice
<emOne> But I cant imagine that servers will start using SSDs for a long time
<IgorPec> nothing is lost
<emOne> That is cool
<emOne> I will need to read about this
<IgorPec> they do. we recently moved our main server to some typical commercial service
<emOne> And is it SSDs?
<emOne> That sounds expensive
<IgorPec> we have like 60GB SSD and 2TB slow storage
<emOne> GB or TB?
<IgorPec> we only need fast storage for primary things, database, OS
<emOne> Yes
<IgorPec> 60GB
<emOne> Ah ok
<IgorPec> just a little
<emOne> That is reasonable
<IgorPec> but its more then enough
<emOne> Yes
<IgorPec> storage is elsewhere anyway
<emOne> Some supercomputers run on ARM CPUs
<emOne> So you never know what will happen next
<IgorPec> in what context?
<emOne> I just hope to run Linux on my arm box without any bugs
<mrueg> IgorPec: I think the tag on github should be v20.08 instead of v2020.08?
<IgorPec> "without any bugs" is a bit optimistic
<emOne> X86 used to be the norm
<buZz> the norm is for normies
<buZz> we're on irc so its safe to assume we're weird
<emOne> Hahah yes
<buZz> :)
<emOne> There are people on irc still!!!! In 2020!!!!
<emOne> Amazing really
<emOne> I think it is possible that arm cpus could be the new x86
<emOne> Actually
<emOne> They already are
<IgorPec> mrued: fixed, tnx
<buZz> :) i never left irc since BBS days
<emOne> I never had that privilege
<IgorPec> my first irc was almost 30y ago. uf
<buZz> i live in netherlands
<emOne> Oh wow Igor
<buZz> i've had broadband since ~92
<emOne> That was before the www Internet?
<buZz> yeah
<emOne> Buzz how?
<emOne> Igor 30 years that is amazing
<buZz> highschool in a university town, internet was hip so they donated us a 10mbps link
<emOne> My first Internet connection was a 56k modem in 97 or 98
<buZz> .edu internet was the bomb
<IgorPec> yeah, its was edu internet
<emOne> Oh wow
<IgorPec> there was nothing else at that time
<nekomancer[m]> broadband in 1990? c'mon! That was modems 9600 era
<buZz> best i had was edu 100mbps fullduplex in a dorm room
<emOne> I think the first commercial www Internet came with windows 98 if I remember correctly
<buZz> no limits, for ~5 years i ran a public ftp server with all dreamcast games in original scenerelease format
<emOne> Wow buZz
<[TheBug]> my first irc was in 1994 on netcom netcruiser ---wooo
<nekomancer[m]> campuses have VT100-VT220 terminals with serial connection in dorms at 90[
<buZz> TBs traffic per day
<[TheBug]> dialup on 9600 baud baby
<IgorPec> we had digital terminals vt-something
<[TheBug]> back in the days where VAX, SCO, HP 3000 and Solaris ruled the world
<emOne> That is insane
<IgorPec> we had server on the internet with own domain in 1995
<nekomancer[m]> <emOne "I think the first commercial www"> for sure mosaic browser and www was present at 94 at least.
<[TheBug]> I was hosting a website off a dedicated 28.8 modem by 1995 ;p
<buZz> someone ported mosaic code to modern linux
<buZz> its -insane- fast
<emOne> I was stuck listening at 56k dialup sounds while you already had broadband
<IgorPec> i had fixed connection :)
<IgorPec> 10Mbit
<buZz> but doesnt do https or javascript
<IgorPec> since server was in the .edu facility
<emOne> So how did irc work back in those days?
<buZz> all irc was 1 network
<emOne> The same as today?
<IgorPec> we know all people that was online :)
<buZz> it was total anarchy
<IgorPec> in the country
<buZz> anyone could setup a server and connect
<buZz> and nickcollide to gain nicknames
<emOne> Would you connect to the IP?
<nekomancer[m]> In all countries. It was one archipelag.
<buZz> emOne: no DNS already existed
<emOne> Oooh nice
<IgorPec> .edu had network in very good condition and not many users
<buZz> and cuseeme, archie, gopher
<nekomancer[m]> UUCP mail
<IgorPec> we got B class IP
<buZz> there was a ton of services to mess around with as a 13 year old teenager ^_^
<emOne> Did you already have.net.com.org?
<nekomancer[m]> cuseeme = 95 or 96
<nekomancer[m]> gopher
<buZz> later for the Windows platform in 1994.
<buZz> but it was a established service on macintosh prior
<buZz> 92
<[TheBug]> Welcome to Armbian Nostalgia Chat, our host is emOne.. making us all feel old
<IgorPec> we did't use windows
<IgorPec> not mac
* buZz turns 42 next year
<emOne> We used telepathy
<IgorPec> only vax, some hp station and that kind of things
<buZz> and just got my first grey hairs \o
<IgorPec> haha
<[TheBug]> IgorPec: you ever have to use HP 3000?
<emOne> Wow so you're not even old
<IgorPec> not remember
<emOne> And you witnessed the Internet from the VERY beginnings
<IgorPec> not that old :)
<[TheBug]> My first driver over a few hundred megs was a tower of 4x1TB SCSI drives came off an old HP 3000 system,
* nekomancer[m] remember how friend download first linux. there was vax vms and unixes around, worst was bsdi. all shame for linux.
<[TheBug]> drives*
<[TheBug]> I spent a week just getting the scsi drivers to work so I could access the drives in DOS
<IgorPec> thebug: i remember some hp apollo workstataion with motorola
<emOne> My first Internet was AOL
<emOne> Heh
<[TheBug]> ohh I ran Slackware before it was 1.0 lol
<emOne> I think I had it already in win95 if I am not mistaken
<[TheBug]> talking about first Linux
<IgorPec> me too, v1.0
<emOne> Omg wow
<[TheBug]> on a 386
<[TheBug]> loaded it with 20 floppies
<emOne> Dang
<[TheBug]> or something
<[TheBug]> haha
<IgorPec> haha
<emOne> Did you also run dos?
<emOne> You had to play some dos games.... I wouldnt imagine there were good games on Linux
<IgorPec> i think this was one of the beauties
<[TheBug]> Commander Keen and Digger wooo
<IgorPec> but the exact model i forgot. we tried to put linux on it
<emOne> Those games were awesome thebug
<buZz> i've used compuserve, but it was kinda boring
<emOne> Igor that looks like the original PlayStation 4 lol
<emOne> So was AOL buZz
<[TheBug]> IgorPec: my first job at an ISP when I was 16 was maintaining 6 SCO servers that provided e-mail, usenet and dial-up services for a whole ISP ;Z their main engineer quit and I was coloing a server there and one day ran into owner of ISP and he asked if I knew how to managed sendmail and such, I said yes... he gave me root
<IgorPec> it was defenetly a PLAY station :)
<emOne> AOL had good messaging though
<IgorPec> SCO unix ...
<emOne> Perhaps PlayStation 2 looks more like it actually
* IgorPec forgot to eat ... be back
<emOne> Lllllol
<emOne> The Bug that is awesome
<[TheBug]> ;)
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<buZz> [TheBug]: look what our hackerspace got the other day ; https://twitter.com/buZztiaan/status/1197207985254260737
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<ArmbianTwitter> @zathras (david reid): @henriktudborg @quasi42 Thanks. The R2S was something I looked at. Looks like it will fit the bill, but don't know anyone who's used one? Will look at the #armbian stuff tomorrow. 😊 (26s ago)
<[TheBug]> buZz: ROFL
<buZz> from a local shoestore that went out of business
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<ArmbianTwitter> @armbian (armbian): Check out #armbian modified and improved #badass #htop that is preparing for the next release cycle. https://t.co/l5pZH5pMTB (7s ago)
<[TheBug]> am excited for tomorrow, i ordered a m.2 to PCIe x4 adapter for my RockPi 4c and a 8 port SATA card (yeah thats right, I am going right to the big guns!) and gonna see if it will recognize it and what type of performance I can get.
<nekomancer[m]> what da card?
<nekomancer[m]> old LSI?
<[TheBug]> lol nah trying somethign a bit cheaper than that it only has 2 lanes anyways so got an cheapo x1 card
<[TheBug]> wont' be fast but more interested in stability
<[TheBug]> at the same time I ordered a mPCIe to x4 adapter also for EBin and gonna test it also
<nekomancer[m]> 8 sata need 2×4 hdd tray and power supply for 8×12A 12V
<[TheBug]> yep
<[TheBug]> ATX power supply
<nekomancer[m]> 250-300W
<[TheBug]> nope more like 65watt
<[TheBug]> maybe 70
<[TheBug]> ohh you meant the supply
<[TheBug]> I use a nice 450 or 600 watt 80 bronze
<[TheBug]> if thats what you mean
<[TheBug]> but the actual usage of it loaded is less than 100watts with drives and board
<nekomancer[m]> yes
<ArmbianTwitter> @notkoutsie (؜): @armbian Coolio (13s ago)
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